is it normal for intercourse to be painful at first?

[chipie.livejournal.com]

Where do you all stand on the should-intercourse-be-painful-at-first debate?  (A debate that may or may not only exist in my head.)

I've always believed that there was no reason why first-time intercourse would be painful.  Especially if you've been sexually active before, use lots of lube, are turned on, have no problems with tampons or fingers, etc.

But that's what I did when I first started having intercourse, and it was still really painful.  Since then, over the course of one year or so, I've probably had/attempted intercourse about 20 times, maybe more.  The pain I've been having basically feels like there just isn't enough room in my vagina, if that makes sense.  Nothing seems to help it and it hasn't gotten better with time.

I've now given up (temporarily, I hope) because I don't think it should be this painful, and I don't like birth control.  But I also wonder if the pain was normal.  Maybe if I had just kept going it would eventually have gone away?

What do you all think?  It is normal for intercourse to be painful the first few/many times?  Or does that signal a problem? 

(I am going to see a doctor about it anyway, but I'm just wondering what the consensus is on this.  My friends are really divided, and I'm confused!)

Comments

[http://users.livejournal.com/_forcemajeure_/]

If you're adequately aroused and/or using lube, it's not supposed to be painful. The only time it's ever been painful for me is when I haven't had sex in a few months and there's a slight pain for a second or two as the guy is entering me, but that's it.

[chipie.livejournal.com]

What do you mean, "anatomically and physiologically"? My understanding was that anatomically a vagina should be able to stretch without too much trouble?

Thanks!

[frolicnaked.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure if this is what fullof_secrets meant, but there are some variations. For example, some folks have minimal or no hymen when they first have penetrative sex while some might have a thicker or more resistant hymen. That can affect pain levels despite being aroused and lubricated.

Additionally, while aroused vaginae doe stretch, some stretch to be longer than others. For example, if the measurement of my favorite vibrator is spot on, my aroused vagina never gets past the 4.5 inch mark. Coupled with a low cervix day, that can make for some pretty tricky intercourse navigation. And while I know that now and can plan for it, it's definitely something I didn't know when I first started having penetrative sex.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_forcemajeure_/]

well just pretend I put "For me," in front of my second sentence and "but everyone is different" at the end of it. My bad.

[tacky-tramp.livejournal.com]

Exactly. Vaginas vary. Experiences with penetration vary accordingly.

[cellar-closet.livejournal.com]

It really depends on the person. My first time with penetration, in my case it was PIV, was painful. Not terribly, but it burned. The next few times were also somewhat painful, and it eased with time and practice.

My sister on the other hand, didn't feel any pain her first time.

Both instances are normal, because it's different for everyone.

Usually, if it hurts for you after numerous times, there may be an underlying issue that needs to be looked into, especially if you're saying it's really painful. To my knowledge, intercourse shouldn't be consistently painful. If you think there's something wrong, to the point of making you stop, then it's definitely something worth looking into.

[chipie.livejournal.com]

Thank you! I guess I was sort of starting to doubt that my decision to see a doctor was the right one, so I'm glad others think it's worth it!

[rojarabbits.livejournal.com]

I don't think it should be painful, but I think it's normal for it to be. For me, penetration can hurt at first even if I am well lubed, aroused etc [usually if it's been a week since the last encounter] mostly because my partner is on the larger side.
If you feel there is an issue, that's a sign there might be and going to a doctor never hurts, if nothing more than to put your mind at ease. Good luck!

[kimie-catclaw.livejournal.com]

"I don't think it should be painful, but I think it's normal for it to be."

This exactly.

Having pain upon penetration isn't necessarily cause for alarm, but COULD be indicative of a problem.

[chipie.livejournal.com]

That makes sense, thank you!

[chipie.livejournal.com]

Thank you! Glad I'm not overreacting by going to see a doctor, although it sounds like the pain I'm feeling might be normal. I guess I won't know until I see someone.

[archangelbeth]

If your doctor tries to push you off with the "nah, normal, go have a baby" kind of dismissiveness, though... Don't take that as "oh, it's normal." There is a thing called vaginismus, which is a blink-reflex of the vaginal muscles. Painful penetration can teach this reflex, which basically... The vaginal muscles try to slam shut, going "NO TRESPASSING!" Pushing past this generally hurts, which makes the reflex stronger! So it can turn into a pretty nasty cycle.

There's also vulvodynia, which is where the nerve endings in the vulva and/or vagina go, "Any sensation is pain. Q-tip touching me? PAIN!"

And some hymens are extra-thick and will not break or stretch without medical intervention. While they could perhaps be broken with enough painful forcing... I think it's a kind of barbaric expectation that you should experience sexual pain, y'know? I mean, if it's not your kink then why should you have to have a painful 'rite of passage'?

If you feel that your doctor is being dismissive, then eventually you may wish to find a Pelvic Pain Specialist, who can at least rule out a lot of things.

[chipie.livejournal.com]

That was my feeling, that pain seemed unnecessary and that it should be possible to avoid it. And vaginismus was also why I was hesitant to keep attempting intercourse despite it being painful...

A pelvic pain specialist is a good idea, I didn't even know there was such a thing.

Thanks!

[archangelbeth]

If you get to a point where you are having more pleasure than pain (when sufficiently aroused, "pain" turns into "sensation" or at most "discomfort" for many or most people), then pushing on might be worth it. But if it's really bad pain? I definitely think you made the right choice. No need to risk developing vaginismus if you don't already have it!

I forget where I found out about Pelvic Pain Specialists -- I think it was on VP! Anyway, crossing fingers that you get a great doctor quickly, and that whateveritis is quickly diagnosed, and that it's as easy to deal with as possible!

[lilac-ribbon.livejournal.com]

Mine felt extremely "stretched" in a painful way for the first ten minutes or so. After that it only hurt when he hit the cervix. The pleasure made it worth keeping going though.

[chipie.livejournal.com]

Was this only the first time? Or every time? (That's exactly how I'd describe the pain, so that's why I ask.)

[lilac-ribbon.livejournal.com]

Only the first time, though occasionally when it's been a while it feels like that at first, but only for a minute or so.

How long do you attempt it each time? Because the pain DOES go away.

[chipie.livejournal.com]

Um, I'm not sure how long. Sometimes I decide it hurts too much and stop right away, but if I do keep going, it's true, the pain does kind of decrease. I don't think it completely disapears though, it's still unpleasant the whole way though.

That's the problem I guess, even if it was to get better eventually, it's hard to convince myself to keep trying when it's basically just painful, not pleasurable (there is a bit of pleasure, but the pain is still a lot more significant, if that makes sense).

[chipie.livejournal.com]

Thanks! It seems like

"i don't think it should be painful.
i don't think it should be pain free."

about summarizes it, which is reassuring. I am in the process of being refered to a gyno though so we'll see. Thanks!

[arkeiryn.livejournal.com]

For me, if I haven't had PIV in a while, it usually hurts/stings a bit, like I'm being stretched further than I can be -- I think my boyfriend is unusually wide in the penis department, but he is the only guy I have had sex with so I don't actually know. But I've never had it actually hurt, like hurt so much that you don't want to have sex. That, to me, seems indicative of something amiss.

[chipie.livejournal.com]

That's interesting. I would describe the pain like you said "being stretched further than I can be", but it definitely hurts enough to not want to keep going. But I wonder if I was overreacting about the pain. For example, if I had the same amount of pain during menstrual cramps, I wouldn't take anything for it, but I definitely don't want to be feeling that level of pain during sex.

I'm going to see a doctor anyway though, so we'll see, thank you!

[proreality.livejournal.com]

It's always painful for me — I think it might be the size of my vagina or something, but it feels like someone's poking a really large stick in there. I get over it about halfway through, but when we start again, it's painful again... and I've had a good amount of sex.

Some of the friends I've talked to say it doesn't hurt them at all, and it never has, so I'm going to go with the idea that it's just one of those "it's my body, not yours" things.

[chipie.livejournal.com]

That's too bad that it's always painful no matter what you do! It sounds like that might end up being what my body is like too...

[fee-parisienne.livejournal.com]

I don't think I'm going to comment on normal/not normal, but I think it's possible and not uncommon for intercourse to be uncomfortable or hurty the first few times. This is partly because of unfamiliar sensations and stretching in the vagina, and also in some people because of the presence of their hymen or remnants thereof (which get stretched or pulled on during intercourse).

If intercourse is really painful on many different occasions, I would be inclined to think something else is going on. Either a thick and resistant hymen, or tense-ness in the pelvic floor muscles that is preventing the vagina from expanding during arousal. (Just checking, you do know that it's a good idea to be very physically aroused before having penetrative sex, and to use a lot of lubricant?)

[chipie.livejournal.com]

I don't have a hymen anymore and my level of arounsal and lube doesn't seem to change the pain at all... I had been starting to doubt that I should bother seeing a doctor, so I'm glad to hear others think it would be worth it too! I'll feel more comfortable when I go in that way.

[ponta1anime.livejournal.com]

For me, it didn't hurt at all when I was first having sex (about 4 years ago), but in the last year or so has started having a "burning feeling" every time my husband and I have sex, regardless of how much extra lube we use, how turned on I am beforehand, or whether we do or do not use condoms. So, whether it hurts or not can also fluctuate with time and different situations.

[punchbunz.livejournal.com]

definitely see a doctor. you may benefit from some sort of surgery--you never know! a friend was a virgin until she married, which was around the age of 24, and she bled all the time. her husband, a real jerk anyway, was very short but quite thick. she couldn't handle the sex, and he forced her anyway, which ultimately led to a divorce!

she's never mentioned what happened with her doctor's visit but has had quite a few partners since then, never complaining. she had that same issue, though, explaining that she just feels like she has a "cap"--a limit--that cannot be exceeded, and from what i know, her other partners have had relatively small, thin penises.

disregard the few ignorant comments here! there's no way anyone can know what someone else's anatomy is like or why. the average vaginal canal is about four inches long before being stretched by a penis. some women can accomodate the entire length of an 11-inch penis just fine; most will not.

who knows what your problem is and how it can be resolved? see that doctor! enjoy your sex life afterward!

[chipie.livejournal.com]

Thank you! I'm glad no one seems to think I'm overreacting by seeing a doctor.

[punchbunz.livejournal.com]

and, hey, if your doctor doesn't give you an answer that you feel is satisfactory, seek another opinion. no two people think the same way; don't feel dejected or forced to accept that it's just in your head if your doctor laughs at you.

i've got many therapist friends and no two agree on very much. some people bring personal hang-ups or beliefs to work that should be checked at the door. if this doctor doesn't seem like someone you can work with, try interviewing a few gynecologists or even going to Planned Parenthood until you're sure you've got a good match.

[atalanta0jess.livejournal.com]

" the average vaginal canal is about four inches long before being stretched by a penis."

I don't believe that this is exactly correct. Yes, the average vaginal canal is quite short. But it's not the stretching by the penis that elongates it - the vaginal canal elongates when a woman becomes aroused. I'm not aware that having penetrative sex can make your vagina longer, aside from the arousal related expansion.

[paraxeni.livejournal.com]

Vaginas aren't 'stretched' by anything, let alone something as soft as a penis. The vagina deepens in response to arousal with the cervix being drawn up higher to facilitate penetration. It relaxes back down to it's usual size post sex.

[chipie.livejournal.com]

If vaginas aren't stretched by anything, wouldn't that mean that if it hurts because it feels like there isn't enough room, it will always be that way? How can it change without stretching?

[frolicnaked.livejournal.com]

Vaginae themselves aren't stretched by the objects entering them. The vaginal canal lengthens and expands as a result of arousal.

However, that expansion can be limited by other portions of the anatomy. For example, pelvic floor disorders -- where the pelvic floor muscles don't have proper strength or elasticity -- aren't terribly uncommon.

[chipie.livejournal.com]

What I don't understand, then, is why it seems normal/accepted that first intercourse is painful, but not normal that the pain keeps going after a long time (to judge from other people's comments). Is it just because women aren't aroused properly at first? Or is there some sort of stretching happening? Why would so many people seem to have painful sex at first and then not later on in their sex lives? (I should clarify that I'm not talking about length of the vagina, I'm talking about width of the opening I guess.)

[frolicnaked.livejournal.com]

Hymens aside, it's pretty common for the vaginal and pelvic floor muscles to be somewhat tense during new/unknown situations -- which early encounters with penetrative sex would be. Even for folks who are consciously relaxed and aroused, it's not unusual to retain some tension on a muscular level. Typically (or hopefully), what happens is that as the body becomes used to penetrative sex, "muscle memory" teaches the muscles that X amount of relaxation is necessary/a good thing. That leads to sex becoming more physically comfortable over time.

When intercourse *doesn't* become more comfortable over time, this can indicate that there's something else/something different going on that's interfering. Depending on the exact location/type of pain, possibilities would include things like a resistant hymen, vaginismus, pelvic floor dysfunction, etc.

[chipie.livejournal.com]

Oh man, the thought of absolutely painless sex is wonderful! Too bad it didn't last for you... The pain you're feeling seems really different from mine (though I never have bleeding either), but I'm really glad I'm not the only one dealing with this! That is so interesting that bigger penises felt better. I always felt like if my boyfriend's penis was smaller it would be much better (although I don't know at all how his size compares to average).

I know what you mean about not daring talk about it. I always feel so weird when I say that intercourse is painful, especially if I say that it seems abnormally painful.

Hope you figure it all out!

[smckeown.livejournal.com]

I only pass by here infrequently, but since this is a topic I myself have something of a vested interest in, I happened to see your post. :)

My girlfriend and I are going through much the same thing, and for the past year have been attempting to become more fully sexually enabled around the painful sex problem. It's not something I had ever run into before... or, well, at least not since I stopped being a dumb boy who might never have noticed and instead became a smarter and more supportive boy instead. Being a smarter and supportive boy has led to the two of us making some happy headway into things working out for us, so I thought I'd give you a little advice and hope it can help you look at your situation through a different perspective.

I had never encountered the pain issue before, and had presumed at the beginning of our sexual exploration together that it was simply due to her virginity and that simply repeating the attempt (perhaps more forcefully) would be the critical step in resolving it. This sounded wrong to me somehow, since there didn't seem to be any hint of bleeding or tearing and thus this did not sound to me like a "hymen" issue so much as it was based on "this is how the size of her vagina is". I asked a few people whose opinions I trusted for advice, and they echoed that original thought, that repetition with more force would lead to resolution. This was the worst advice I could possibly have received, and thankfully I recognized that fact immediately and dismissed it in search of better information. (I asked a woman for her opinion then, and found out I should pretty much *only* be asking women because the guys basically suggested that same bad opinion over and over again like some sort of sacred truth.)

Over the past year, we achieved successful growth towards PIV intercourse through a few key things: 1) something I'm calling 'size training' for lack of a better or more accurate term, 2) growth of trust and sexual rapport, and 3) learning the ins and outs of how we work together instead of assuming that everything I knew from interactions with previous sexual partners would apply.

1) was done thusly: we acquired several different sizes of vibrators, ranging from "the thinnest vibrator we could find" to "approximately the same size as I am". These were then slowly introduced to our sexual routine alongside copious foreplay and cunnilingus, to ease into the idea of successful penetration not necessarily being painful.

2) grew naturally from the patience and caring we applied in regards to this, as very simply it was necessary for me to take my orgasm off of the table and focus entirely upon her sense of comfort, safety, and pleasure to dispel the expectation that it *had to* be painful. It's true that sex *can be* painful, and very unfortunate that for some it is the status quo. We found, however, that with greater confidence as we slowly but surely worked things from the incredibly comfortable to the somewhat challenging that we learned each others' sexual reactions and how much foreplay and lubrication was necessary, which alongside the building rapport led to closer and closer approaches of near-PIV experiences as the larger toys became pain-free.

As the positive, non-painful, orgasmic experiences were had over time, we were able to explore what did and did not work more successfully without the fear that pain was going to be the automatic result, and for the two of us at least 3) resulted in us learning that direct clitoral stimulation (by hand if that's what is available but preferably by vibrator, as that is more consistent and more easily controlled) greatly eased the ability to enjoy penetration by objects of greater width, and actually led to the largest toy being pleasurable with proper foreplay and lubrication, and even then there was still some discomfort that could have become painful if gentle care were not being taken as the first priority.

(cont'd)

[smckeown.livejournal.com]

(continued from above)


The most important thing to take away from this is that if painful intercourse is occurring, it's better to talk about it and try to work together to communicate and learn together how to build the rapport, trust, and skill-set necessary to grow together into a less painful sexual experience... or maybe even a pain-free one, who knows? But as the boy who was in love with a girl who experienced painful intercourse when we made our first attempts, the most important thing for *me* to have come to understand that led to a happier resolution of this pain problem came from learning that even though I was considerably sexually experienced, everything I already knew about sex was in this case horribly wrong and had to be thrown out the window, and having that sort of conversation with your boyfriend to lead to the both of you working more slowly and more conscientiously towards resolving the pain you are experiencing will be an excellent first step in either reducing or eliminating the pain.

Not only do you have to dare to talk about it, you have to dare to talk about it with him. I didn't read in any of your replies that this was a topic you'd discussed with him, and I would just like to say that if you haven't, you absolutely need to, as while painful sex is not a necessity, it becomes a given if it is experienced and not communicated. Have you communicated this with him already, and if so, how did that go?

[chipie.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much for your very thoughtful reply! Your suggestions are very helpful and it's so nice to hear from someone whose worked through this. Especially when I was feeling ready to give up completely, I'm feeling less discouraged now.

I have talked to my boyfriend about it, a lot. He's been very helpful and patient, although he's perfectly content without intercourse (which is nice) and, to a certain extent, doesn't really understand why I've become so focused on intercourse even though it's painful. We were sexually active for years without having intercourse so he feels like our sex life is the same as it always was, but I keep thinking about how my body is not cooperative and I get frustrated. So there's a bit of a disconnect there. But we are regularly talking about it which is a start. I think I will show him your post/talk about your suggestions, which should be helpful and get the conversation towards what we can do instead of what we can't do (which is what I usually talk about, I think).

I'm really glad you came to the conclusion that repeating intercourse again and again wasn't the solution. That's been my feeling all along, but then I wondered if I just hadn't given it a fair try.

It seem like you and your girlfriend have really taken your time to work through all this. I didn't realize it until I read your comment, but I'm feeling really rushed about it, like "we need to be able to have intercourse right now immediately!", which is ridiculous. So I think I really need to give myself permission to take it slower.

Thanks so much!

[smckeown.livejournal.com]

Well, we started with a little bit more of a rush to it, since once we decided that was something we were ready for we both wanted to get to it and give it a try... only to find out that we were going to have to go at a pace that worked, instead of the pace we wanted to work. Sex can be a complicated thing, and impatience tends to make it more complicated rather than less. The belief that somehow we were "owed" this because we wanted it to work just was a poor way to work through the actual reality of the situation, we both had to learn a lot of patience and go slowly, build trust and not get discouraged by the fact that we couldn't just snap our fingers and it would work.

You really do need to give yourself permission to go however slow it takes until it works, because your body is going to need that whether you give it that permission or not, and forcing quickly what has to be worked towards slowly will actually make things worse, not better. In our case at least we both had things to work through - I had to unlearn all of my previous sexual experience and really accept that I had to learn everything new from the beginning all over again if this was to work, and she had to learn to get over her nervousness and anxieties that came with being a late-blooming virgin who had previously only been treated poorly by men and learn to trust that maybe this one was okay. :)

Feel free to contact me privately off-list if you think it can be of any benefit to you or your boyfriend.

[shdwcat.livejournal.com]

I don't think there is a "supposed to be" because everyone is different, but my first time ever was not painful at all.

[oopsiedaisies7.livejournal.com]

I don't think there is a "debate" regarding whether or not a person's first experience with penetration "should" be painful or not. For some people it hurts a lot, for others it hurts a little, for some people it is just uncomfortable, for others it's totally pain-free. Foreplay and lube probably help to reduce potential pain, but it's not like somebody has to be doing something wrong in order for it to hurt initially.

If it *continues* to hurt over a year later, though...I would definitely consider that a reason to see a doctor! Maybe continued pain during intercourse is common, but I don't think that means that it should be expected or is necessarily considered (for lack of a better word) "normal". Whenever I visit my gynecologist, there is the standard question "Do you ever experience pain during intercourse?" which leads me to believe that it is advisable to tell a physician if you experience pain during intercourse.

In any case, sex is much more enjoyable when it's pain-free, and I'm sure a doctor will be able to advise you toward painless sex :)

[chipie.livejournal.com]

Thank you! I'll definitely see a gyno. The pain during in intercourse question seems more related to STIs in my experience though, once you're clear for that doctors don't seem concerned about painful intercourse. At least, the doctors I've seen haven't been. Hopefully a gyno will be more helpful...

[io2012.livejournal.com]

Just an FYI - if you go to your primary care doctor with this question, they more than likely will not be able to help you. Of course there are exceptions, and really good primary care doctors, but my experience has been that these sorts of things get swept under the rug at PCPs. Start with a good OBGYN instead. Find one that listens and/or has a reputation for listening. Then, if they say they can't help you, ask for a referral to another doctor.

Also - since no one has mentioned it - there are some things that might help your pain during sex. If you haven't tried it, for instance, make sure that you or your partner insert fingers before any PIV. Give your vulva a little bit of a massage and insert a finger or two while giving clitoral stimulation to warm things up. You may then want to try different positions, depending on the shape of both yourself and your partner. For instance, missionary feels good for me only after a couple of minutes and if my legs are very bent up. Doggie style is great but only if I'm very aroused. Girl on top? Never feels good for me. :-(

[chipie.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I went to a general doctor at first and I've been refered to a gyno (that's why I haven't seen one yet, the referal process takes a while).

Is there a position you would recommend trying? I'm like you, girl on top is worse and missionary is only okay with my legs are bent. So maybe positions that work well for you would help me too...

[tacky-tramp.livejournal.com]

PIV sex ranged from mildly uncomfortable to painful for basically the entire first year I was having it. It got better eventually (though that coincided with getting rid of my first sexual partner, so maybe that contributed).