Role reversal

[nifbit.livejournal.com]

I'm beginning to feel like a total guy. (Insert sarcasm here.)  Why, you ask? Because my boyfriend doesn't put out. We've been seeing each other since February. It took until April to get to the first kiss. Mind you, we're both 32, so this is pretty odd to me. When the first kiss came, it was because I couldn't take the anticipation anymore. It was another month before we actually went to bed together, and I'm always the one to do the initiating. I've made it clear to him, damn clear, that I don't always like to be the one making the first move. We've talked about it on a number of occasions, and nothing has changed.

We actually broke up for a month and have recently gotten back together. Right now, it has been 13 weeks since we've gone to bed together, and I'm crawling the walls. We both agreed to monogamy, but damn... This is getting out of control. Something always gets in the way of me getting what I want, and I'm starting to get frustrated. To make things worse, the week after thanksgiving he got slapped with a paternity suit out of the blue. Didn't even know the girl was pregnant, and the baby is now 4 months old. DNA test came back on Thursday, and it is indeed his. Just great. Another obstacle.

I've taken care of myself, so to speak, but that isn't doing the trick. This is finals week for school, and I can't even think straight my panties are in such a twist.

In my frustration, I sent him a text message: I think 3 months of celibacy is making me brain dead.
His reply: Sorry. You can have a gas filled Duncan (his dog) to motivate you.
My reply: Not quite what I had in mind.
His reply: I'm really in the mood for cheesecake factory.
My retort: You put out and you can have all the cheese cake you want.
His reply 5m later: I hate being sick because I am tired of being home, but don't feel like going anywhere.

Did he think I'd get distracted in 5m? Argh!

I don't want to go throwing around ultimatums because that never results in anything good, but my patience is spent. Does monogamy really count when a guy just never puts out?!

Rephrasing:  Just wanted to clarify a little...  Throughout the course of the time we've been seeing each other, I have really put myself out there for him.  When he's had a bad day at work, I listen to him vent.  When he's feeling down, I try to make things better.  Even when he told me about the paternity suit, I told him that I'd stand by him no matter the outcome.  I think it is pretty clear that I am in this for more than just the sex.  If that were the case, I'd have been outta there before we even got to the first kiss.

My issue is, really, that it isn't an equal give and take.  When we broke up, it is because he got stressed out and outright ignored me for 3 weeks.  I got fed up and told him that if I wasn't worth his effort, I couldn't stay in the relationship.  We had finally agreed to talk, and instead of discussing our relationship, he only wanted to talk about work.  I was... perplexed to say the least.  I finally asked him where we stood.  He said he didn't know.  I asked where he would like things to be, to which he indicated that he'd like them to be back where they were before things hit the fan.  I confessed that I had missed spending time with him...  His reply floored me.  He said he missed himself, too.  Guess that says a lot, doesn't it?  Yeah.  It does.

Maybe the real answer is that I can't make this work on my own.  I can honestly say that I've tried repeatedly to talk to him.  Things weren't a picnic even before this paternity suit.  But, now I've given my word to stand by him, and I won't go back on my word.

Comments

[oompaprincess.livejournal.com]

Maybe he's not into girls, or he's just not a sexual person. He sounds outwardly uninterested in sex.

[mangofandango.livejournal.com]

It's true that it sounds like his sex drive isn't very high, but I don't think we can really speculate as to his sexual orientation. He is in a relationship with a woman and nothing in this post suggests that he isn't having sex with his girlfriend because he wants to have sex with a man. Not wanting sex with one's partner of the opposite sex does not in any way suggest that one is gay - there are a myriad of issues that could be at play here.

[nifbit.livejournal.com]

Thanks for responding to that. Wasn't quite sure how to comment on the remark about his orientation, but you did so quite well. I appreciate it.

[oompaprincess.livejournal.com]

I disagree. I think it can actually suggest that he may be gay, but I don't think that is def. the case. I think a lack of sexual interest in one's partner, could suggest a lot of things, and homosexuality I think (my opinion) could be one of those things. I am not saying that because he doesn't want sex he must be a homosexual, I'm just saying that it is a possibility, along with many other things.

[amyrebeccah.livejournal.com]

My opinion? Yes, it counts.

Break up with him if your sex drives are incompatible (which it sounds like they are) and he's not interested in meeting you halfway.

Or, if you're comfortable, bring it up to him and ask if he'd mind opening the relationship sexually.

[pinkgatorgirl06.livejournal.com]

I agree. Monogomay always counts if you have made a committment to each other.

[ticktockman.livejournal.com]

This is not the right guy for you. Whatever his fine points are (you didn't mention any but I'm sure that he has them), they don't outweigh neglect.

Are you living with him? Figure out what it will take to move out, and get started.

Are you not living with him? Tell him goodbye.

g'luck!

*daha*

[evilbecca.livejournal.com]

something is up with him..you need to have a talk...maybe its depression, maybe he cant get it up... who knows.. but communicate... if u cant talk about the issue maybe u guys shouldnt be together?? :(

[kalmn.livejournal.com]

dump his sorry ass.

[mangofandango.livejournal.com]

While it's true that the OP and her partner may not turn out to be sexually compatible, I don't think it's fair to treat her partner as if he's purposefully being a jerk, or anything like that. He just doesn't want sex. Most likely, he can't help that. There are a million possible reasons, from depression to physical problems to just going through a random lull in his sex drive. I don't think it's fair to blame him for it. He could be really struggling with this.

Also, I think it might help to think of it this way: if the roles were reversed and it was the OP complaining of a low sex drive impacting her relationship, we wouldn't suggest her partner should "dump her sorry ass". We'd express sympathy and support, and give her constructive suggestions. I think that perspective needs to be kept here, as well.

[kalmn.livejournal.com]

Also, I think it might help to think of it this way: if the roles were reversed and it was the OP complaining of a low sex drive impacting her relationship, we wouldn't suggest her partner should "dump her sorry ass". We'd express sympathy and support, and give her constructive suggestions. I think that perspective needs to be kept here, as well.

oh, no, i certainly would suggest that, were her partner to post here. i've been in relationships where my partner hasn't been interested in sex with me for whatever reason, and put years. of. effort. into fixing whatever problem my partner complained of.

dtmfa. quicker, cleaner, and then you can go find someone who's into you.

you can still "stand by him", you can still be his friend. but go date someone else.

[frolicnaked.livejournal.com]

"dtmfa. quicker, cleaner, and then you can go find someone who's into you."

I think it's potentially misreading a situation to assume that if someone has a low sex drive, it means that person is not "into" his or her sex partner, regardless of the genders in question. There are any number of reasons a person can be experiencing low sex drive -- hormonal imbalances, illness, stress, strains in other areas of the relationship, etc. -- and not lack of sexual interest in a partner is only one of them.

[jexia]

Don't forget medication, too.

[lyenuv.livejournal.com]

Very true. Me and my SO's sex life took a dip for awhile, because he was on anti-depressants, and if I would have dumped him then, I wouldn't be having the incredibly kinky sex we're having now >D

[nifbit.livejournal.com]

I'd be surprised if he were on anti-depressants. He has expressed an aversion to meds of that nature. Bad experience with someone in his past that was taking meds for bipolar disorder.

I actually weaned myself off Paxil, in part because of him. I'd been taking it for more than 5 years, and I didn't want it to influence our relationship.

I say only in part because I did it for me, too. It was making me sleepy all the time, and I was tired of it, so it was a good move all the way around.

[briar-witch.livejournal.com]

I agree with the commenter who suggested he may be depressed, or have some other, perhaps similar, reason for not being interested in sex, as well as the fact that he may simply not be a very sexual person. Has he been to a doctor to rule out any physical factors? If that doesn't work, then perhaps couples counseling.

I'm sure you care about him, and wouldn't want to hurt him. The idea of an ultimatum makes me very uncomfortable, because forcing him to have sex with you won't necessarily fix whatever might be wrong. It reminds me too much of the first time I had sex, which was coerced, and which still haunts me today. I was forced into it by my boyfriend because I had been reluctant to have sex for several months and, like you, he was enormously frustrated with having waited for so long. This isn't a judgment on you, I'm just worried that if you do give him an ultimatum he may put out which, under such circumstances, would ultimately harm both the relationship and him.

Monogamy does count, even when he doesn't put out. For my spouse and I (different guy than the boyfriend I mentioned above) there are many facets to our relationship, with sex being only one facet. It depends on your priorities, which are different for everyone. The trick is finding someone whose priorities are similar to yours. Since sex is such a strong priority for you, you may need to consider ending the relationship and finding someone whose sex drive matches yours, if there truly is nothing physically wrong with him (including the possibility of depression) and counseling doesn't work. I think if you do decide upon couples counseling, the sole focus shouldn't be his lack of sex drive. Communication is key to any relationship, and there may be other factors involved with your relationship which is affecting his sex drive.

I hope this helps.

[atalanta0jess.livejournal.com]

I totally second this comment. Wish I was wise enough to have written it myself!

[silentxsarecool.livejournal.com]

Yes, it absolutely counts. I spent two years waiting for my current boyfriend (a virgin at the time) to be ready to have sex. I cared about him and wanted to be with him and he just wasn't ready. Our drives in general were compatible, though, so it's a bit different. Maybe you should have a frank, polite discussion with your boyfriend on why he's not so into sex? It could be stress about the paternity suit/work/etc or he could just not be very sexual. Either way, it'd do you good to know so that you can make decisions on your compatibility.

Also, good luck on finals!!

[mannelie.livejournal.com]

i am really sorry that you're going through something like this. the best thing to do, i think, would be to talk to him about it and be so clear that there's no way he couldn't understand what you're saying. you're not a bad person for wanting a healthy relationship that involves sex. maybe he's asexual? you mentioned that he had a baby. do you think that something happened in his previous relationship that made him not like sex anymore?

and also, i'm totally not picking on you with this, but i sort of politely disagree with the quip about role reversal and you feeling like a guy. there's nothing inherently un-sexual or less sexual about being a woman.

personally, i think that's just a gender bias to say that it's a role reversal just because you are interested in sex and your boyfriend isn't, because there's nothing that says it's weird for a woman to be horny and there's nothing that's weird about a man not being horny. there's really no "roles" for anyone. it's all an individual thing, know what i mean? again, i'n not picking on you. just observing.

i hope you get some relief and get this resolved soon. good luck! <3

[nifbit.livejournal.com]

Oh, believe me... I am a firm believer that it is absolutely normal for a woman to have a sex drive. I'm actually making a comment on the stereotype... You always hear men complaining about their wives not being interested in sex. I think it goes both ways, though. I'm sure there are plenty of women out there who would like more in their relationships, but it isn't something we see talked about. I've got to say that I actually admire the women in this group who are so open. It is refreshing.

As for my boyfriend... The funny thing is that afterwards, he always says he feels better. Somehow, though, in the interim after sex and before the next time, he forgets this.

The more I think on it, the more I feel like I just want something back out of the relationship. I put a lot of myself into it and get very little in return. I reason with myself thinking that if I try hard enough, it'll eventually level out. That remains to be seen. I may well be fighting a losing battle.

[atalanta0jess.livejournal.com]

Maybe if he was giving you more back in non-sexual ways, it would be easier for you to deal with your seemingly incompatible sex drives?

Sounds like you guys have some serious talking to do. I hope it all works out in a positive manner.

[diamondxavenue.livejournal.com]

I think that one of the problems is in your perspective - you term it "putting out." In a monogamous, caring relationship, it's not exactly thought of that way usually; most people would say it's a physical embodiment of the attraction you feel, not just something you throw out there for the heck of it. "Putting out" has some negative connotations that imply that the other person is there just for sexual purposes. I agree that there may be other issues at work here. Talk to him and figure out exactly what it is.

[jasminelily.livejournal.com]

Have you had a real conversation with him about how much it bothers you that you don't have sex? If not, you really need to sit down and talk to him about it. If so, and he's still reacting in this way, then you just have different attitudes towards sex and you may not be compatible.

[wistfuljen.livejournal.com]

"I confessed that I had missed spending time with him... His reply floored me. He said he missed himself, too. Guess that says a lot, doesn't it? Yeah. It does."

okay, forgive me please because I am a professional online tarot reader and I just got off of a long shift, so I am still in fruity advice mode. But... it's a good sign that he trusts you enough to say something like he 'misses himself.' He's opening up to you, even if it's half-assed, and that says something. He also likely has huge issues with recently finding out he has a child he doesn't see and just found out about.

There are so many mitigating factors here. Big issues are smothered by smaller ones that add up to a big ball of miscommunication in your relationship.

Talk with him about how you feel. You can't control his reaction to this; the thing you DO have control over is being responsible for your own feelings and how you react to his. Regardless of the outcome, if you take this responsibility you will feel stronger, and better.

[nifbit.livejournal.com]

It seems like it is very hard for either of us to talk about how we feel when we're actually together. It gets... awkward. I hate to say that I usually have to wait until I run into him online to get stuff out. I think that's part of the problem.

When I think about it, I have to say that it is difficult to get him to open up. We met online, even though we live right across the street from each other. I remember his profile saying that he is an open book... that he thinks communication is really important. But the reality is ... he's very closed.

[arseaboutface.livejournal.com]

Dude...I'd dump him.

[sexxyful.livejournal.com]

Ditto. It sounds like you're putting a hell of a lot more into the relationship than you're getting out of it, and like he isn't putting anything into making it work. One-sided relationships like that usually don't last. The best advice I can give you is to ask yourself if the relationship makes you happy, and if he makes you happy, even in the least. If not, I'd get out, because it really isn't fair to you. If he does make you happy, hopefully you can figure out how to make it work, and get him involved in making it work.

Actually, that just made me think of something. Maybe he's just trying to get you to dump him because he wants out of the relationship.

[sexxyful.livejournal.com]

And I totally just posted that way before I meant to.

Either way, you two need to work on communication so you can figure out what your wants and needs are and you can figure out how to balance yours with his.

[whitelime.livejournal.com]

The two comments you made about monogamy really rubbed me the wrong way--of course it still "counts," and honestly to me that sounds like something someone would say when they are looking for an excuse to cheat/justification for past cheating.

[whitelime.livejournal.com]

Also, though it looks like you've gotten a lot of good responses here, you could try posting to sextips.

[fierceawakening.livejournal.com]

I agree with the people who have said DTMFA. If you'd said that you're extremely happy with him out of bed and he's always been open about his low sex drive or tried to compromise, I wouldn't say that. But what you write doesn't indicate that. In fact, this paternity suit makes it sound like his sex drive may not be so low, and he just may not be interested in you.

The "I miss myself too" comment suggests that he knows something is wrong, is struggling with depression or mental health issues, etc. But if in the entire space of your relationship he has not made effort to deal with issues like that, I doubt it's worth your while to stay and work it out.

DTMFA. This isn't good for you.

[loonylupinlover.livejournal.com]

Just to clarify, "monogamy" doesn't have to mean "celibate"! You keep saying the word like you think you almost deserve to not be having much sex just because you've both decided to keep it to each other only. But that's totally not true. I love me some monogamy and I love me some sex, and the more of the latter, the better. If I saw my boyfriend all the time and didn't have sex with him for THREE MONTHS, I'd be crawling the walls too!

It sounds like you're putting more into this than you're getting back. Like others have said, if there's still happiness to be found in this relationship, then by all means seek out couples counseling because your words don't seem to be making a big enough impression on him for him to want to change. But if not... then I would say the time has come to end it. You stood by him for the paternity suit, but your problems aren't with him having a kid, they're with lack of communication and lack of intimacy. As long as it's clear to him that those are the issues that you cannot handle any longer, not the paternity suit, you are still keeping your word.

[queensugar.livejournal.com]

Some other commenters have left great comments.

What I will add is that for many people (male or female), if there is an underlying root cause to their loss of sexual drive, the pressure from a partner to have sex can complicate that root issue and make people even more reluctant to have sex.

I'm not saying that this is anyone's "fault;" more that it may be an additional possibility that due to what is obviously some stalled communications between the two of you, he may feel that you are expecting him to perform sexually, and that this makes him want to resist that perceived expectation.

[hippieintrainin.livejournal.com]

My housemate went thru something really similar. It turned out for her at least, that his sex drive was just much lower then hers- after the initial couply stage, it just dropped off drastically. It happens, it sucks, but it happens. Talking about it helps, she also found that there are random little things that sometimes help too (if he just has a low sex drive). One is putting a dab of your own juices (ok, that sounds nasty just typing it, but i couldnt think of another word), on your neck. Something about pheramones (sp), is like a little fuck me signal. She says everytime she does it, he jumps her. I think everyone in the house has tried it and for some reason it works.
Definately talk to him about it though, you deserve to know why its just not happening.

[silentxsarecool.livejournal.com]

From your edit, it sounds like there's way more to this than a simple lack of sex. I agree with others who say your boyfriend seems to be having some deeper issues that need to be resolved. While I won't say "dump him NOW!" or anything (that's totally your decision) I do want to remind you that "sticking by him" doesn't have to mean being treated like crap. You're helping him and doing things for him over and over and asking him to talk to you, but he ignores it; you're being treated like crap in that respect. I rarely think ultimatums are a good idea, but he really should talk to you. It's terrible to be in a one-sided relationship. It's so much work for almost no payoff and you basically spend the entire time waiting for one little bit of attention - a touch, a smile, a conversation, anything! It's terrible.

I'm sure you know that already. Just remember that situations change. Just because you said you'd stick by him doesn't mean you're abandoning him or going back on your word if you decide you just can't put in so much work anymore. Look out for yourself a little, too, not just your boyfriend.

[-nocticula-.livejournal.com]

It seems like you have a lot more to consider than just your sex life in this situation. It sounds like you are very supportive of your boyfriend and put a lot into your relationship and it doesn't sound like he knows how to give you that in return.

I know it is not what you are asking advice about but you mentioning a paternity suit is worrying to me. I am worried because I was and am involved in an ongoing case with my fiancee. You have it harder. You have been used to having this man as your boyfriend all by himself and with no worries. I met my fiancee when he was still with his ex and she was 3 months pregnant, we were also friends for a while before we started dating. I thought I knew what I was potentially getting into when I promised to stand by him through it all, and I must admit that I had no clue. It has been very hard and very stressful and has made all the other things we've had to go through much more stressful because it has always been in the background. On the other hand because of it we are very very close but we also have a very loving relationship. The situation with your boyfriend may be very very different than what my fiancee has gone through (I also see that you live in Florida, I am in California, laws differ a lot), but paternity cases for unmarried parents are very hard especially for the father. If you want any information or to hear what other women in your situation have gone though you might try Second Wives Fighting For Fathers Rights (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/2nd_Wives_Fighting_for_Fathers_Rights/). They are usually very supportive and I'm sure if you asked they would be more than happy to share their experiences with you. I am a member of this group and I am not a "wife".

I'm just saying that if you are even remotely doubting the seriousness of your relationship with this man you should definitely consider what you are getting into with this paternity case. What he wants out of it, what you are willing to deal with, and the consequences of it on the legal side. I know that your promise to support him is very important to you but your sanity is very important too. You might find that you are more able to support him in this as a friend and as a person more "outside" the whole situation. The child that he has fathered one way or another will change the dynamics of his life and it will change your life too as long as you are with him.

If you have any questions at all you can e-mail me at nocticula5585@hotmail.com

[nifbit.livejournal.com]

The paternity suit is really up in the air right now. Basically, she wants him to surrender all parental rights AND pay child support. Fortunately, the law in Florida doesn't work like that. He either gives up his rights and pays nothing, or he pays child support and gets some parental rights.

I asked him which would be his preference because that is going to be the beginning of how things will ultimately pan out. He said his choice would be to surrender his rights and not have anything to do with the child's mother. (Note, he didn't say anything to do with the child. Just the mother.)

Right now, they're waiting for her and her attorney to make a decision. Obviously, my choice would be for him to not have that extra complication if he doesn't want it. Will he regret it later? Probably, but it isn't my place to tell him how he should feel.

I know first hand how children from other relationships can play havoc on a marriage. One of my sisters had a child at 16. He's 30 now, and he still causes a lot of tension between her and her husband who married when he was 12. My other sister is married to a man who's previous relationship resulted in a child. The woman saw their relationship falling apart and thought a child would make him stick around. It didn't, and he eventually married my sister. Having to pay child support and just deal with his son's mother really made things nuts. She was pretty whacko. Called my sister on the eve of her wedding and told her that her soon to be husband and just came and screwed her. Lovely woman.

So yeah... It is a helluva lot to consider.

[sinful-grrrl.livejournal.com]

First, you shouldn't feel obligated to stay with someone because you gave them your word you would. While it's important to stand by what you say, if there's no give and take in the relationship, your mental health needs to be taken care of as well.

Second, if you really are committed to this man, you'll need to deal with your own sexual needs until this is straightened out. It's possible that the pressure he's sensing, and getting directly from you, is helping to kill his libido.

Third, he sounds depressed to me, which would explain alot. He might not have the energy to give back the energy you say you give him. Some people can handle being the partner of a depressed person, others can't, which has no bearing on that person being bad or good, it's simply how different people are.

In the end, all you can do is decide if this relationship is worth the current aggravation. If it's not, then leave.

[littlesillymoo.livejournal.com]

While you shouldn't feel obligated to stay with him, try to talk to him. It sounds as if he admits that there is something more going on with him. Maybe plan a nice weekend away together? I mean this by plan it together, and when you take it, no cell phones, computers, nothing linking you back to your (and his) situations. Leaving the stress behind might do wonders, and it will allow the two of you to spend time doing intimate, couple-y things that may not be sexual, but could lead to that. I would also reccomend trying to go to a counselor together, so that not only could the two of you talk about the issues with the paternity suit, but you could both see the others' point of view when it comes to the lack of sex. Having an objective, professional to hear you two and give you advice might, again, be helpful.

As for monogamy... Everyone who knew me was surprised that my boyfriend had waited as long as he had to have sex with me. We were both virgins, 18, living on campus, and I was scared to death of the idea of being so emotionally and physically vulnerable (I was also working through some self-confidence, depression related issues, which he helped me with). Now, I see how painful that must have been for him, and I am so grateful that he stayed with me when we were literally sleeping together but not having sex for over 4 months.

Different situation though, and as I said, if you can't work through it together, you definitely deserve a better, more functional relationship.