sex/abstinence/relationships are complicated

[needed-rain.livejournal.com]

Hey superstars,

I'm a straight cis-female, and have been in a relationship for a year and a half (with a cis-male). We share the same faith, but have differing views on what it means for sexuality. I am okay with pre-marital sex in a monogamous relationship, while he is uncomfortable with any kind of pre-marital sexual activity (this includes breast/ass groping). So far, it's worked fine-- in my opinion, if a couple disagrees on boundaries, they ought to go with the more conservative boundary, so as to avoid making people uncomfortable. Even though I would establish different boundaries for myself, I've accepted his boundaries as our boundaries. 


This is my partner's first relationship. I've been in relationships before, including sexual ones, but the sexual aspect has never been healthy-- sex is all tangled up in guilt and self-abuse. My only experience of PIV sex (which was also my most recent sexual encounter) was an extended case of sexual abuse by an authority figure. In a previous sexual relationship, my partner would initiate sexual activity, and then blame me for participating. So, my experience of sex is tangled and nasty and uncomfortable.

My current relationship has been really good for me-- it's a safe space to engage in some erotic touch and plenty of kissing, and because my partner has more conservative boundaries than I do, I never feel pushed. I've finally been able to start masturbating again; orgasms used to just be scary, because I related them to rape (the only time I've ever had an orgasm with someone else was in a non-consensual encounter, and it sucked). I even had two orgasms while making out recently-- no genital touching, just brain-gasms, and it was awesome and exciting, but I didn't feel comfortable sharing the news with my partner, because I'm afraid it would make him uncomfortable.

I also still have loads of trouble with guilt-- if my partner admits that he's uncomfortable with something I'm doing, or needs to take a break to get himself under control, I immediately feel awful and guilty and wretched, like I'm perverting this lovely innocent self-controlled man (even though I know that isn't true.) 

So, I feel like I'm in this very weird situation, where my partner is doing wonders for my sex life, but he has no idea, and if I told him it would make him uncomfortable. And lately (this is pretty much the tl;dr version) I've started getting really annoyed that we don't have more liberal boundaries. I'm not sure I'm ready for PIV sex yet-- there's a load of aforementioned baggage there-- but I feel like I've made loads of progress and then stalemated, because we can't go any further without making my partner uncomfortable, which I don't want to do. 

I haven't articulated a question yet. I guess what I'm wondering is 1) ideas to keep me from resenting my man's boundaries and 2) ideas to help me respect them more. Or 3) is there a non-aggressive way to bring up the topic and see if he'd be willing to re-consider some boundaries, without making him feel uncomfortable or pressured in any way? I do not want to pressure him!!!! I would much rather be a bit frustrated than have him uncomfortable.

Um... so. Ideas? Advice? 

Comments

[butterflybee260.livejournal.com]

I would start by trying to figure out a way you guys can have an open talk about this and get on the same page. Do it during non-sexy times, and basically tell him what you've said here, how you honestly respect his boundaries and your relationship has been wonderful etc, etc, but you need to talk about this.

I'm religious and I've encountered people who have different views on how far to go before marriage, etc. Mine currently hover around won't go all the way but I'll go pretty far ;). I'd ask him WHY he has chosen these boundaries. What about them are important to him, and if he's had any change of mind since you've started dating. (this may help you as well, if he doesn't want to change anything, so you can at least get why he feels this way.) At least get the conversation started, it may take him time to come up with an answer. There's a lot of guilt associated with sexuality and religion in general and getting over that is difficult. I'd tell him how being somewhat sexual with him has helped you so much, so that he can start to view it in a positive light. I think that the most problematic part is the fact that you feel like you can't communicate with him about sexual stuff, which is important in a relationship even if you're not having sex. If you guys can come to the same boundaries, or even just have better communication on the subject, where both of you are comfortable and fulfilled, then your relationship will be in much better shape, because you don't want to start resenting him.

Take it slow, be gentle, and understand it takes time in any relationship to get on the same page sometimes. It sounds like you really care for him and I wish you all the best of luck <333

[needed-rain.livejournal.com]

"If you guys can come to the same boundaries, or even just have better communication on the subject... then your relationship will be in much better shape, because you don't want to start resenting him"

Yes, exactly. I'm getting nervous because I feel like I'm going to start resenting him, and I don't want to.

For me, sex includes any time you're naked and trying to come-- so, there's not so much a difference between fingering, oral, and PIV. I know he has the same definition of sex as I do, just different ideas of when it's okay. His hesitations about groping are more "Will I be able to keep myself from having sex if I'm fondling and kissing her breasts?" than "Kissing breasts, in and of itself, is bad!"

I think a lot of my potential resentment stems from the idea that his boundaries are just based on "what is appropriate" (his family is pretty Big On Morals) rather than what he, himself, from his own interpretations of things, thinks is okay. But yeah... definitely something I need to talk to him about, not the internet.

Last night we had a semi-conversation about it, and he indicated that he might be re-thinking some boundaries, but since I'm ovulating sexytimes have been through the roof, and there hasn't been a non-sexytimes opportunity to chat about it.

Your comment is one of those comments that articulates some elusive bits of my own thinking. Thanks!

[butterflybee260.livejournal.com]

I'd definitely talk about the why behind his boundaries, I think that would help a lot. And if it is more based on his family's view of things, now that he's actually in the situation, he might rethink things.

If you guys think of sex the same way, what about trying different options that don't fall under that, so you're both satisfied but not crossing that line? Mutual masturbation, for one, or just exploring other options together in general. If he's more worried about losing control than the morality of the act itself, you can find ways where you both are satisfied but are not having sex, and have sort of stop gap measures in place so you don't have sex. I think there's definitely lots of possibility, but it will really all just start with better communication. :)

I think you've got a great attitude about this situation and hopefully you guys can move forwards together. Best of luck! <3

[atalanta0jess.livejournal.com]

Well, I am no help because I have no advice. Just some sympathy, because I have been in a similar position, and it felt really shitty. :(

It doesn't sound like you are disrespecting your partner's boundaries - I guess I'm confused about that part of your question.

Maybe you could continue in your self-exploration somehow? That might help you feel like you were continuing to make progress, without requiring that he change his boundaries.

[needed-rain.livejournal.com]

I'm not physically disrespecting his boundaries, I just have guilt-burdens about wanting to disrespect his boundaries. I'm uncomfortable with how much I want to (and aware that that's irrational, but emotions are often irrational).

I've thought about masturbation as an aid, but I think I'm about as far as I'm comfortable with masturbation. Also, it's much less about the physiology at this point than it is about the relationship. It's like the masturbation-sex-issues are resolved, but I want to work on the relationship ones, if that makes sense?

[atalanta0jess.livejournal.com]

Well..maybe you could reframe a bit for yourself. It's great that you want to bone your partner! ;) Honestly, it's a fantastic thing that you are so attracted to him. And I am sure there is a part of him that wants to disregard his boundaries as well. Its ok to want whatever you want!

Hm...it's a really tricky question of how to continue your progress in the context of the relationship given his boundaries.

[atalanta0jess.livejournal.com]

I also just had the thought that you are probably still working through SOME things in this relationship. Sure you're not having sex. But you are coming up against things like "I am a bad person for wishing I could have sex with this dude."

I know when I was in similar shoes, I often felt like some kind of awful temptress or something kind of ridiculous like that. There is a lot of "it is bad to be sexual/want sex" that came up for me, which is very well something that you can work through in the context of this relationship.

[wiirenet.livejournal.com]

sometimes when I see posts like this anywhere on LJ (Im in some love advice comms too) I wonder if the person could just link or copy paste the post to their partner.

Im such a text based person, my bf and I talk all the time on IM or texts and we've talked about everything, including awkward sexual things. I actually wonder if it will hinder our relationship when we're no longer long distance and I wont be typing to him anywhere since I have problems voicing things in person.

anyway, if you can voice your opinions/thoughts/fears like this post, try to do them with your partner. I dont know why people frown upon things like email, when it can be easier to say whats on your mind, and the truth in text than in person.

just try to voice your thoughts to him in anyway you can, even if its sending him what you just wrote

i know it doesnt specifically answer your questions but its bc I feel like I dont have the experience with what your dealing with. but i still think you should talk to him, and i dont see anything wrong with typing things out if youre too nervous to talk in person.

[needed-rain.livejournal.com]

I'm not really too shy to talk to him-- it's just in this issue, specifically, I feel like I'd be pressuring him, which is absolutely not something I want to do. Butttt I definitely have used notes before as conversational aids in relationships :)

[fallconsmate.livejournal.com]

"Darling Dear, I have some mixed emotions going on that I'd like to talk with you about." (not to...with.) "I absolutely respect your boundaries and don't want to pressure you, can we talk about what led you to decide (particular boundary) about (particular thing)? I love you so much that I get all carbonated hormones and Disney chemicals going on, and want to make sure that we're ok and that you don't think I'm pressuring you for something you don't want right now."

Or something. Maybe schedule ice cream after dinner one night, and discuss things while having wholesome ice cream....and try not to lick the spoon in suggestive ways! (ok, so that's something I do to TheEngineer on a regular basis, teasing him. But we're in year 4 of marriage, too.)

Be honest and respectful and keep communication open between the two of you. Good luck!

[elfinragdoll.livejournal.com]

+1 for that amazing convo template.

"carbonated hormones and Disney chemicals" is the best thing I've heard in ages :D

[fallconsmate.livejournal.com]

thank you! learning to have good communication with your pookie of choice is an ongoing thing, and i'm really fortunate that TheEngineer is someone who TALKS.

the silly ex...doesnt. we still like each other but we're MUCH better friends than partners!

[io2012.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I have a ton of helpful advice, but I will say that I went through something similar. Sexual expression of any kind was always labeled as "slutty" or "stumbling block" for me growing up. At a young age I was forced (peer/parental pressure) to participate in an abstinence ceremony and had to deal with a lot of guilt the first year I was sexually active.

That being said, my partner and I have never had matching sex drives. It has nothing to do with our beliefs (I don't think, anyway), but more to do with our hormonal hardwiring. It can be very frustrating when you are in the mood for more and your partner isn't. I've found that a good compromise for us is to be practical and work out something to meet eachother halfway. For example, some times when he's not really in the mood he will help me masturbate (half the time it gets him in the mood and we end up in full partnersex anyway! hehe), and sometimes when I can tell he's really tired and asking him would just make a fight, I let it go and masturbate on my own.

I know there may be a level of intimacy that you want from partnersex that isn't exactly achieved by masturbation, but don't underestimate the importance of self-loving, especially when sexual experiences of the past have all these negative undertones. If you like and value all the other parts of your current relationship, being patient, AFTER a full conversation expressing how you feel, might be the best medicine.

This got a little sidetracked, but I guess I just wanted to communicate that you are not alone, many people have negative experiences to work out related to sex, and many, couples have mismatched sex drives (I know in this case it is values-based). Focus on what is healthy for you and be open with your partner.

[implodes.livejournal.com]

when you're having the gentle conversation about why he feels the way he does, you might (assuming you're christians) talk about or read the song of songs. whenever i've read it, i can't help but read it as two passionate young lovers whose love is so strong that they decide to marry, and it provides an interesting counterpoint to the new testament verses that can seem to be about saving oneself for marriage. and sometime you could talk about is the fact that there are really different depictions of what good & proper sexuality looks like in the bible (multiple wives and concubines being OK, for one, & ruth/boaz) and talking about what that could mean, how to make sense of that.

i think the fact that you're really concerned about not implicitly pressuring him means that you're going to handle this all really well and respectfully, btw. being really explicit and saying "even though i'm saying i feel X way sometimes, remember that we NEVER have to do anything you don't want to, and i am so happy to just touch and kiss you" or something like that could help.