[identity profile] corvidophil3.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] vaginapagina
The title is a pretty good summary, haha. Hi, I haven't been here before two days ago, but I've been, um, having crotch problems for a while. It's kinda long, so I cut it.


A general rundown on me, leading up to my current problems:
-I'm 21.

-As far as I know, I've never been sexually traumatized at any point in my life.

-I've been externally masturbating since I was 7 with no pain.

-I briefly attempted inserting a tampon when I was 14 and stopped due to strong pain. Not a big deal, I thought, probably just not ready yet and just went back to happily using pads.

-I tried curiously poking fingers inside myself once or twice a year starting around 17 and stopping at 19ish, essentially "testing the water" to see if it still hurt. It always hurt immensely, like someone was shoving HARD into a very bad bruise, no mater how gentle and slow and lubed.

-I've been attempting to have sex with my fiance since 19, he's not large and not pushy at all. Never worked. It was most commonly way too painful, but twice, I mysteriously wouldn't feel anything at all! ..But I couldn't continue, physically! It was literally like hitting a wall. We just hump now, essentially. This is usually either pleasurable or at least painless, but sometimes it hurts, just like poking into a bad bruise like insertion would.

-I've been unsuccessfully trying to be examined since 20. I'm terrified of being examined down there. I bust out crying before I'm even undressed, and I scream in pain when people actually attempt to insert anything into me, and got sent home twice. I had ENOUGH of my initial gyno when I called him one day after having an especially bad sexual experience in which I attempted to insert lidocane cream down there and stretch myself out slowly. I got my hand in and actually entered the pocket behind my uterus, at which point I had a full scale panic attack: Vision tunneled and clouded, throat the size of a straw, uncontrollable shaking, the works. He was incredibly annoyed at me and told me to go take a shower.

-I made an appointment with someone else recently, who was far more patient and only talked to me. We decided that I would be examined under anesthesia at the hospital, and so I was. He apparently found a hymen and a half (aren't I lucky!), one very thick and meaty with a medium opening, and one, I forget the term, that was a thick band of tissue. He surgically removed these and stretched the vagina, and I had six solvable stitches, and said that other than those, I was entirely normal. This was on the 9th of Feb.

-I had a regular office checkup scheduled on the 22nd to see how I was healing, but on Monday, I started getting bad stinging pains all the sudden, totally different from the dull soreness that had been steadily going down since the surgery. My period began on Monday too, so I ignored them, thinking it was just a compound pain from having it so soon after being worked on.

Tuesday they were much worse, there were points of the day where I couldn't even shift weight while sitting down without yelp-worthy stabs. I let loose air a few times while peeing, and I started to suspect that the pain was being caused by blocked up air. Went away overnight. Wednesday they slowly built up over the course of the day and went away while I was asleep, too, and I had definitely seen a correlation between certain movements (walking too fast, sitting and standing, bending over at the hips at all) that caused air to suck into me, and that managing to dispel it either by squeezing after peeing or by pushing both sides of my outer labia in a downwards and outwards movement brought either a little or great relief from the pain.

Yesterday, Thursday, they did NOT go away overnight, I still had the same pains I did when I laid down. I tried looking up all sorts of techniques for queefing essentially, haha. I tried elevating my hips and just resting like that, stretching, various different pelvic floor movements. The only thing that helped at all was massaging downward my outer labia. The day was spent accidentally taking air inside all day long and then fighting it back out again. My period wasn't helping, and the air was preventing blood from escaping regularly. Thursday and the day before, I would stop bleeding for half a day, suddenly let loose a huge amount of air, followed by a gush of blood. By the latter half of the day, I was mostly painfree, but I could still feel a presence in there. I called the gyno that day asking about these pains, fearful that they would come back. He was concerned, saying nothing he did should cause that type of pain, and wanted me to come in the next day.

-Today I went in, and after crying out of nervousness I was given Valium, and he attempted to peek inside. He barely touched me and I cried pretty hard out of fear and he wanted to stop, but I asked him to try again. He let my fiance into the room with me this time and gave me 10 or 15 minutes to calm down, and tried again. He got about 3/4's of an inch inside before something suddenly hurt like WHOAH and I yelled and propelled myself way up the table, oops. He gave up and I don't blame him much, though part of me wishes he would try again. I got dressed and we talked more. He told me that, aside from giving myself a nice long time to heal, what I mostly needed was a psychologist or sexual therapist. I think what I mostly need is a set of dilators to desensitize with, because I highly doubt that any amount of talking is going to help with the physical side. He wasn't able to answer any questions about the bubbles and was very confused that they even got up there, I was clamped shut like an angry clam, haha. The appointment for the 22nd was canceled, and now it's up to me to do something.


SO.

1. I've gotten bubbles up myself a few times before, and they DID NOT hurt, nor did they stay. They were just funny feeling inconveniences that lasted a few seconds. Why did I feel like I was being stabbed for days on end, and why did they keep entering?

2. I'm loathe to do this, but any recommendations for sexual therapists or psycologists in the NJ/NY/PA area? I was given a name by my gyno, but I often don't get along with people and would like alternatives available.

3. Do you think it's wise to simply try slowly dilating myself?

Date: 2011-02-19 05:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jeesh.livejournal.com
Wow, that sounds terrible. So sorry you have to experience all of that.
My only recommendation is that if you're as uncomfortable with your gyno (and any gyno/doc) as it sounds like maybe you are, you could just try to find a gyno that you like and that makes you very comfortable. If you can afford it, book appointments to just meet them and discuss what you have going on. Let them know you don't want any exam whatsoever, you just want to talk about it and meet them. Then there's no pressure that you're going to be examined or have anything touched. It can help to just meet them and get more comfortable before they have you strip down. That's kind of what I did. I didn't like the first gyno I got sent to, so I just booked another appointment with another gyno, and we just met up and talked and I decided I was comfortable enough to let her go for it. Being very very comfortable with the doctor makes a HUGE difference. Especially because you do seem prone to panic attacks (which I understand and sometimes get at the doctor too). If there's something that helps you calm down, like laughter (which is my case), try to find a doctor that is good with that. I got an IUD put in 2 years ago and holy crap was that scary. But I found a gyno that was so calm and she kept me laughing the whole time, and it went very smoothly. That made such a huge different then any other doctors I had ever been to.
My guess is there is some sort of psychological thing going on that maybe a professional could help you out with, but it really sounds like it's more just nerves and the fact that it hurts like all hell. Seeing a therapist may or may not help. Maybe they could help you just with your panic attacks.
Maybe a little study of meditation and relaxation techniques. If you really follow them and let yourself give in to them, it does help. I am so terrible at anything spiritual or whatever you want to call it, but meditation breathing techniques can really help calm nerves and help you from tensing up, especially down ~there when you're being examined. My mom taught me relaxation breathing when I was really little because I could never fall asleep and it does really help. I still use it now.
Good luck! That sounds like a tough situation to be in.
*virtual hugs*

Date: 2011-02-20 09:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jeesh.livejournal.com
I think the most important thing about going to the doctor is being comfortable. I ended up finding a gyno at one point who was also a certified mid-wife, which I think just seemed to make her way more sensitive and calm than the other doctors I'd met. Who knows if it was the fact she was a midwife or just the fact that she was super young and cool, but I adored her. I wish I still lived near there so I could go to her when I needed.
I think asking if they have someone who specializes in vaginismus is a great idea. You definitely want to be working with someone who is very familiar with it. Hopefully you can find someone who will fit your needs and help relax you for the whole process.

I'm the same in regards to panic attacks. I've only ever had them in conjunction with a doctor visit. Definitely not a fun or productive experience. Super scary.

Seriously though, check out some meditation breathing techniques. They're really simple, but they can help a lot. Especially when you know you're going into a stressful situation like all your gyno stuff or just other stuff in every day life. It becomes my routine at the dentist when they bring out that damned plaque scraper thing. Oh man, do I get all zen, LOL. I've never been able to meditate or anything like that cuz my brain always refuses to shut off. But using the super slow regulated breathing, and working on feeling separate parts of your body (start toes up) and think about each little part and say in your head "And now my _____ is relaxed" and take a few deep breaths, and hopefully that will do the trick all the way up your body.
When I can't sleep, this is what I do. It's relaxing as hell as long as you try to keep your mind quiet and just focus on relaxing.

Good luck girl :)

Date: 2011-02-19 05:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kuradi8.livejournal.com
"I got my hand in and actually entered the pocket behind my uterus,"

I think part of your anxiety and pain is unfamiliarity with your own anatomy. There is no "pocket" behind your uterus. What you probably did was get past your pubic bone and pelvic floor muscles into your vagina.

Whether you do so with or without professional help, getting past the anxiety of vaginismus boils down to teaching yourself that penetration (for either function or pleasure) is either "neutral" or "feels good."

There was a post recently to which Beth ("archangelbeth") wrote a FABULOUS 4-part reply with advice that you would probably benefit from as well. Good reading at: http://community.livejournal.com/vaginapagina/19469934.html

Date: 2011-02-19 06:27 pm (UTC)
archangelbeth: An egyptian-inspired eye, centered between feathered wings. (Eye in the Pyrawings)
From: [personal profile] archangelbeth
*blushes at being referenced*

For the OP: if you want to attempt dilators, then you can invest in some hard-plastic dildos of various sizes -- or, for cheaper alternatives, you can get candles! Don't get scented ones, obviously, and you probably want to cover with a condom, but you can find various sizes, cut them in half so you can use a narrower top for one size, and (after carving a tip) the wider base for another, or carve them down if one isn't quite right.

I do agree, it sounds like you're very unfamiliar with the technical terms of your genitals -- and it might be very helpful to become more familiar with the "bits." For one thing, you'll have a better idea of where things are, if you're doing anything that no one could do without pain, etc.

http://www.infovisual.info/03/063_en.html is a pretty good "cutaway" (side view) of everything that's there. If you need any of that translated out of Medical Speak, just ask; I used to be a pre-med student (relatively briefly) and can usually translate from Medical Jargon to Real Words. O:>

Date: 2011-02-19 07:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kuradi8.livejournal.com
Beth, your good advice was worthy of publishing. :o) I'm sorry I didn't ask your permission first. I got caught up in the moment of being able to pass such insight along.

Corvidophile, the problem with soooooooooo many anatomical diagrams is that they look so different from how things feel in there. Most of them, including the link that Beth sent, imply that the urethra and bladder are very easily accessed when in fact, it's just a little pinhole entry and most can't feel the urethra heading up to the bladder even though it looks like it's an accommodating tunnel. Also, the pubic bone is pictured as being far away when in fact, the thick surrounding tissue feels kinda prominent at the upper vaginal entryway. While we all have personal preferences of how girthy we prefer, that vaginal entry is designed to allow passage of fingers, penises and larger items for pleasure.

The next thing you'll probably feel are the pelvic floor (aka PC for pubococcygeus) muscles. The feel like circular grippy muscles. Because you have vaginismus, these will probably be clenched. Little by little, teach yourself to relax them to open them. Keep your jaw slack and don't forget to breathe. Teach yourself that it doesn't have to ("shouldn't") hurt to pass through the opening they create. Penetration doesn't have to be "OMG, it's the best thing ever!" but it should be at least "neutral."

Beyond them, there's your vagina. It's kinda like an empty balloon that is very elastic and can accommodate things as little as fingers/penises and as large as babies.

At the top/back of your vagina is your cervix, which is a circular muscle and is almost always clenched very tightly shut. It is the "doorway" to your uterus and keeps its contents tightly inside. It opens to a pinhole when you're most fertile to allow sperm to pass and again to let your period out. Obviously it doesn't open much because it takes several days to pass a couple of shot-glasses worth of uterine lining. But it is capable of opening wide enough to pass a baby when it's time to give birth.

There are really good VERY FRANK photos and diagrams at http://www.the-clitoris.com/ along with better explanations of how/why things work in there. That site also links to others that have more information.

Date: 2011-02-19 10:17 pm (UTC)
archangelbeth: An egyptian-inspired eye, centered between feathered wings. (Eye in the Pyrawings)
From: [personal profile] archangelbeth
Pfft, if I put it on VP, link to it if it's useful. If I wanted to exercise copyright, I'd write it up and sell it on Smashwords for 99 cents. O:p

And thank you for elaborating on that the diagrams are good for identifying things, but not so good for realizing that everything tends to be all smushed up together in there! (One of the pitfalls of being pre-med for a little while -- my brain does still automatically translate stuff from pictures to how it feels to have it.)

Date: 2011-02-20 12:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kuradi8.livejournal.com
99c?!?!?!?!? Nah! Your advice and how your wrote are worth WAAAAAY more than that!

Date: 2011-02-20 03:38 am (UTC)
archangelbeth: An egyptian-inspired eye, centered between feathered wings. (Eye in the Pyrawings)
From: [personal profile] archangelbeth
Well, word-count-wise, it's really short! So 99c. Makes it easier to buy. O;> (But I don't really think "Beth's Words of Wisdom From VP" are reeeeeaaaaaalllly appropriate for selling. I'm just glad when someone decides I was helpful.

I'll sell other stuff on Smashwords! O;D )

Date: 2011-02-20 12:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kuradi8.livejournal.com
Replying to myself to edit my words...

I described your PC muscles as "circular grippy muscles." The best analogy I can come up with is a clenched fist. But it's not nearly as big as an adult fist. More like a small baby's or a large doll's. However, it can open up to be quite large. I've seen hard core photos of female bodied people (gotta be gender-neutral here) with things as large as champagne bottles inserted in their vaginas for pleasure. Personally, that's WAY BIGGER than I would enjoy (a large penis is about my personal limit) but there are those who enjoy it.

I don't think a fornix is so pronounced. And it's not a pocket, it's a "moat" around your cervix. Yes, your vaginal canal bends. (Yet another thing they don't draw.)

Reading ahead, I see you have explored yourself more deeply successfully. Now work on allowing others to do that for function (doctor's exams) and for pleasure. Little by little. Take baby steps. Hey, we're all cheering for ya!

As for the bubbles, which everyone has overlooked, I dunno. It could be that air got up there from the outside. Or maybe there's some sort of biological process going on in there that produces gas/air of some sort. A mild yeast infection might do that. Minor itching often accompanies it. Since you mentioned your period, that usually "washes" it out. If not, there are all kinds of home remedies ranging from inserting cloves of garlic to applying SUGAR FREE active culture yogurt. Eating yogurt supposedly helps too. Google for more info.

Date: 2011-02-20 03:53 am (UTC)
archangelbeth: An egyptian-inspired eye, centered between feathered wings. (Eye in the Pyrawings)
From: [personal profile] archangelbeth
If your cervix was hanging really low that day, it's not impossible that you got behind it. More likely -- though that doesn't mean 100% gotta-be! -- would be going slightly backwardsish, toward your spine, rounding the "curve" that the pubic bone imposes (that picture doesn't really show how extreme an angle the vagina can get at!), and coming up around that, to get at the anterior fornix.

The difference... Hm. Your cervix will generally be kind of like the texture and consistency of the tip of your nose. Slightly firm-squishy and fairly smooth. Poking it might make you feel oogy, or might even be painful. The vaginal wall that is bending around your pubic bone will tend to be rough, or rippled, or -- depending on variations in anatomy and the surgery's effects -- kind of fringy from hymenal remnants in that area. If you happen to find your g-spot, it might feel interesting.

I'm definitely not going to say it's impossible that your cervix was hanging low and you slipped a finger behind it! It's a little unlikely (the pubic bone imposes a very startling curve! usually this comes up on VP when people are asking how the heck to put a tampon in without pain, and some people find that they can't touch their cervixes at all, due to finger length), but some people do have really low-hanging cervixes at certain points in their cycle or all the time. You could well be one of them! Until you are feeling well enough to do some more careful exploration (clean hands! after surgery, only clean hands around the area!), or unless you remember the texture of what you were feeling, it's probably a little difficult to sort out from just a description. Till you're cleared to put hands there, I'd say... don't worry about it. You'll have plenty of chances to explore your anatomy, on your own time, and figure out what's what and what's where.

(BTW, at some point, those soluble stitches may "fall out." If this is a reasonable time after the surgery, don't panic if you see bits of them come out. It's what they're meant to do. They're probably all brownish looking, if they're the same kind that were on my cats when they were spayed, and I just realized that they might be startling if you see them in the toilet or something.)

Date: 2011-02-21 06:09 am (UTC)
archangelbeth: An egyptian-inspired eye, centered between feathered wings. (Eye in the Pyrawings)
From: [personal profile] archangelbeth
They may melt into nothing! The cats generally managed to bite the external bits off eventually, and until then... Yeah, I wouldn't want you to be upset by funny-looking stringy-twiggy stuff coming out of you.

When you say "bottom wall" -- do you mean "anterior" wall (towards the bellybutton) or "posterior" wall (towards the spine)? From how you describe the position, I'd assume that you were curving your fingers around so the fingerprint-side of your fingers was facing towards your bellybutton (approximately) and the flat of your fingernails would've been "facing" towards your spine (approximately).

That would make it much more likely that you rounded the pubic bone and got to the "front" of the cervix. If you were pushing against the side of the vagina closest to your spine, then that makes the anterior fornix more possible. (I am still totally not going to dismiss possibilities. You were there and I wasn't!) The cervix should've felt pretty smooth, with a little dimple in the middle. Tougher and wrinkly sounds more like the hymenal area, and the vaginal wall. Probably won't be able to be sure until you're feeling well enough to explore s'more, indeed.

I wish I had good tips for faster healing! Um... take vitamins? *wry grin*

Date: 2011-02-22 08:11 pm (UTC)
archangelbeth: An egyptian-inspired eye, centered between feathered wings. (Eye in the Pyrawings)
From: [personal profile] archangelbeth
Interesting! Yeah, if you were putting the pressure against the rectum and sliding up that way, you could've passed a low-hanging cervix. (And understandable that everything would be kind of blurry; stress does that.)

I think I'm at the "could be this, could be that" stage -- probably the only way for you to figure out where your anatomy was is going to be to have a nice, relaxing, careful exploration once you're healed up enough for that.

Date: 2011-02-19 09:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] atalanta0jess.livejournal.com
Ok - so a) the problems you are experiencing are NOT psychological problems. But b) a psychotherapist (counselor/therapist/psychologist/etc) might still be helpful. Because it sounds like when you ARE able to explore physically, sometimes you have panic attacks. Or that at least once you've had a panic attack, which would lead me to believe that you're likely experiencing some anxiety around it (which of COURSE you would be, given all the painful experiences you've had!) And unfortunately, being anxious makes pain worse, and can make your vagina clamp shut.

Partially what I'm thinking is that in order to be able to explore the physical side of this, you might benefit from some strategies to reduce the mental part - which is the anxiety that you've developed around this. Normally, anxiety is a very useful thing! Your body has learned that these experiences are painful, and so it developed a very natural and sensible response, which is to make you nervous and scared so that you'll avoid these experiences. But in this case, we're not talking about a hot stove or whatev...and the problem can't be solved by avoidance. Just another one of those times when our crazy brains develop coping mechanisms that are good in certain situations...but they tend to over-apply them.

So - I don't know if it helps to think about it this way or not. Psychotherapy is not going to solve the problem. However, it might help you get to a place where you are more able to do things that will solve it, such as the dialators, without having more negative reinforcement in the form of panic attacks. It may also just be sort of generally helpful, as I know that for many women, vaginal difficulties can have a lot of emotional "side effects." I know that when I've struggled with my vaginal health and comfort, it's been something that really affected my state of mind.

Date: 2011-02-20 11:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] atalanta0jess.livejournal.com
Yeah...that's the cycle of panic. Panic attacks feed on themselves. You have one, then you're afraid of having one, then if you start to experience something like one, you become even more afraid! The good news is that you can learn ways of interrupting that cycle. Deliberate self talk can go a long ways here, and is related to what you would learn from cognitive behavioral therapy focused on panic attacks.

Good luck. This may indeed be something you can work through on your own. But also...don't forget, there's nothing wrong with getting help! I honestly believe that there are times in everyone's life when therapy could be helpful to them, no matter how strong/smart/capable they are.

Date: 2011-02-21 02:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] atalanta0jess.livejournal.com
Yeah, I understand that part of it! There may be low cost therapy available in your area, but it can certainly be tough to find, depending where you live.

Are you sure it wasn't actually an asthma attack then? It sounds like the normal self-calming stuff didn't work, but the asthma medication did...which doesn't scream panic attack to me actually.

Date: 2011-02-23 04:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rantinglover.livejournal.com
PA/NJ/NY are pretty large areas. Are you close to Philly? I can recommend a doctor who focuses on pelvic pain/sexual dysfunction/vaginismus in the Philly area. For what it's worth, I drive about an hour to see her personally and feel that it's completely worth it.

Date: 2011-02-23 03:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rantinglover.livejournal.com
This is where I go: http://www.pelvicandsexualhealthinstitute.org/

And I see Dr. Susan Kellogg: http://www.pelvicandsexualhealthinstitute.org/pelvic.nsf/SBH/4B6169E4DBF3905B85256BAA0051D73C?OpenDocument

They do require a referral from your primary PCP/OB. But it doesn't sound like you would have a problem getting one, if you just told your doc you wanted one to her (even if you don't go and just have it as a backup). Their wait times are horrific though, so if you're considering going, I would make the appointment and then decide yes or no.

I started going to this practice after about 5 years of being bounced around concerning my pain during sex and they have been amazing. I'm not cured yet, but I'm well on my way.

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