Periods and sick days...Opinions?

[ratatusk.livejournal.com]

I have a little bit of a story to tell, and then would like opinions from the questions at the end of it.

Awhile ago, I had a manager who didn't particularly like me. I don't know if that factored into what happened, but it sure didn't make me like her anymore. I worked Saturday morning, and I called in sick because I was having extreme period pain. I got a hold of the manager who didn't like me (let's call her M) and told her I was having very bad menstrual pain. She gets snippy, with a nasty tone in her voice and tells me to take some advil and call back in two hours to see if it's any better. So I call back in two hours and tell her I'm not feeling any better. She says, again in a snippy tone, (and this line is what this whole story is about), "I get bad cramps too, but I take some advil and I still manage to make it into work." And then she blathered on about how I was giving her attitude and that I was needed at work right away. (For the record, she thought everyone who didn't agree with her was giving her attitude.)

What she said really bothered me. I didn't realize until a couple days later, too late to defend myself (I did have a pissed off tone in my voice when I was talking to her and therefore got a talking to) what it was about that statement that bothered me so much. It was the way she assumed that I was exactly like her. What if I had endometriosis? (which I found out might be a possibility with me). What if I had an IUD that gave me incredibly painful periods? What if what if what if. Women are so different in their bodies it shocked me to think that she would assume I'm exactly like her. It also really, really pissed me off.

So these are the questions I have. I've been toying with the idea for awhile of contacting M and explaining to her why I was so upset. I really don't want another woman to be ordered to come into work when, for her, that's totally impossible. Is contacting her a reasonable thing to do? Do you think it would be productive?

If a situation like that arose in your life, how would you deal with it?

Comments

[praeclarus.livejournal.com]

so, what she said was completely uncalled for. i agree with you wholeheartedly on that.

but...maybe she's a bit um, ignorant? i'd consider myself pretty aware of girly health and common problems that women may have (endometriosis, etc.), but that's only from following this community, really. i never have cramps. back in highschool, i definitely didn't really know HOW bad cramps could get. so maybe she just doesn't know/isn't aware?

this ultimately all boils down to how people (esp. in Western societies) will almost always attribute a person's behavior to their personality, and not the situation. when you called in sick, she maybe assumed that you are a lazy person who thinks she's better than everyone else--which explains why she was so irritable and wanted to try to change your ways. the pissed off tone in your voice probably added to that, as well.

you, too, are somewhat guilty of it (we all are!) by assuming that she just hates you (maybe she does... who knows) and she was giving you a nasty attitude. maybe she is going through a really rough time in her life, and her job is on the line so she has to keep all the workers under close watch?

if you could talk to her calmly about it, and keep any accusations to yourself (just to avoid getting her all riled up and defensive), then i think that would work towards a good understanding. :)

[ratatusk.livejournal.com]

but...maybe she's a bit um, ignorant? i'd consider myself pretty aware of girly health and common problems that women may have (endometriosis, etc.), but that's only from following this community, really. i never have cramps. back in highschool, i definitely didn't really know HOW bad cramps could get. so maybe she just doesn't know/isn't aware?

Totally. I think it could be just ignorance, which is one of the reasons I wanted to talk to her about it.

this ultimately all boils down to how people (esp. in Western societies) will almost always attribute a person's behavior to their personality, and not the situation. when you called in sick, she maybe assumed that you are a lazy person who thinks she's better than everyone else--which explains why she was so irritable and wanted to try to change your ways. the pissed off tone in your voice probably added to that, as well.

So true.

you, too, are somewhat guilty of it (we all are!) by assuming that she just hates you (maybe she does... who knows) and she was giving you a nasty attitude. maybe she is going through a really rough time in her life, and her job is on the line so she has to keep all the workers under close watch?

x.x She may not have hated me, but she for sure had a huge dislike which lated for a couple years. It was really noticeable in the way she treated me compared to others.

if you could talk to her calmly about it, and keep any accusations to yourself (just to avoid getting her all riled up and defensive), then i think that would work towards a good understanding. :)

I'd have to send her an email as she's moved to a new store really far away.

[poppleshatesyou.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure talking to M about it would be worthwhile, especially because you said she thinks badly of people soley because they don't agree with her. (which is ridiculous and closed minded) I would complain about her bad attitude to her boss, or whoever is above her on the pecking order. Women's periods are so different and variable to the person, there was no reason for her to brush off your pain saying that she dealt with these things fine when she really has no idea what type of pain you may be experiencing. Not to mention it's really not any of her business what you were calling out sick for, nor her right to make you feel bad about it and talk to you in a snippy tone of voice, that's rather unprofessional.

[ratatusk.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure who I'd report her too and I'm not sure I'd be comfortable explaining the situation to a total stranger (she's moved stores since then). Do you have any tips for going above her?

[poppleshatesyou.livejournal.com]

What kind of store do you work at? Most managers have a boss of some sort, like a store director or store owner or general manager etc. i'd either discreetly ask around like asking your new manager about the chain of command, or maybe speaking in terms of a hypothetical situation. Or just explain to your new manager you feel your previous manager discriminated against you without giving alot of detail and say you don't want her doing this to anyone else if you can help it by saying something and you'd like to speak to their boss about it.

I agree with the other commenter's about it could just very well be her being ignorant, but if she's moved to another store and is not currently effecting your work space this might also be something that you might just want to let go and chalk it up to her being ignorant or mean spirited, unless you are truely concerend for the well being of other employee's she may be un-professional towards.

[speckled-hen.livejournal.com]

Managers on the whole tend to have a dismal view of employees who take time off sick, no matter what the reason (hell! My old employer wanted me to come into work when I was suffering from MUMPS ).
She does seem to be ignorant.
Also, is it a form of discrimination? Especially as you pointed out, people with endometriosis and IUDs can have a medical reason for having cramps. I know that in my teens I would be curled into a ball and crying when I had my period. Personally I would talk to her, or someone in HR about her attitude as it does seem very unfair!

[dayglow.livejournal.com]

Hear hear. I work in a medical testing facility. If a lot of the staff come down with colds, and then a whole bunch of the participants come down with colds, that can really skew the results of the study. (We have to log pretty much anything 'out of the ordinary' from headaches to dizziness to fainting and vomiting or even breaking your leg, even if we know it's not due to the medication.)

I remember a few years ago there was a bad flu outbreak at school. The chancellor of students himself sent an email basically saying 'Hey, if you're sick, don't go to class.' But then if you don't go to class, the teachers get pissy. Personally, I think it's far more disruptive and annoying and awful to go to class feeling horrible and possibly being noisy by having to blow your nose or cough constantly, than to take a day or two off and be able to come back at 100%, instead of taking 2 weeks working at 50%.

[speckled-hen.livejournal.com]

I have a job making balloon animals

(in voice of Comic Book Guy) Coolest. Job. EVER!

[pinkdramon.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't contact her directly. If you feel you must register a formal complaint, then do so through Human Resources or the Hiring Manager, or if you do not have one, then the manager above her.

Now if I were feeling like pulling a prank, then what I would do instead is, get a couple of pamphlets from the doctor's office, about endometroisis, fibromylgia, IUDs, etc. and leave them on her desk with all the "Incoming" paperwork. Maybe brochures without pictures. Or a paperback book. And I wouldn't say a word about it to anyone.

I don't usually have "Bad" periods. So even I don't know how bad they can really get. She might not know, either. The last time I can remember having a "Bad" one was a couple of months ago, at work. It was bad enough so that even though I didn't outright say anything about it, my male boss still picked up on something not being right and let me go home early.
I like my boss.

Of course, I didn't tell him that the reason I was feeling so wonky was because I had my period... ...and that taking Pamprin or Midol (I forget which now) probably wasn't the best idea since I seem to be sensitive to the antihistamine ingredient in it. If he'd have asked I probably would have said I had an upset stomach.

[majellen.livejournal.com]

Heh...I usually don't bother telling them WHY I'm sick to begin with. If they ask, I tell them that I have a policy where I won't come to work if I cannot control fluids coming out of either end of my digestive tract. That usually shuts them up.

But if I were the honest type who DID tell them why I was out...and it happened to be period related, well, I'd tell her tough, I'm sorry, I cannot come in, and I will probably have to miss a day in the future for a doctor's appointment to follow up on this.

I'd write off your conversation with M off, especially if you don't have to work for her any more. If you DO, I'd discuss it with HER boss - no employee should feel bullied into coming into work when they are sick.

[katydidnt98.livejournal.com]

If you have to deal with M., your best bet is probably to get medical documentation, if possible, about your condition and be willing to give it to whoever is in charge of human resources. I have it on medical record that I get migraines and that they're cyclical, so if I did end up with a tyrant supervisor, I can show him/her the documentation so s/he won't pitch a fit about me taking precisely one sick day a month (except when I'm lucky enough to get hit with it on a day off), and if that doesn't work, then it goes to HR. And instead of trying to explain to the manager that it's a premenstrual migraine, I just say I've been throwing up.

Although it depends on your company's sick leave policy and local laws, it may not be legal to fire an employee for not coming in when legitimately ill. So she can't "order" anybody to come in. She can try, but unless it's within policy to do so and not in violation of the law, she can't actually fire anyone for not obeying.

[xdreamsofdramax.livejournal.com]

I had a boss who tried to do something like this to me and what I did was speak with human resources about it. I have PCOS and get incredibly bad periods when I am off of my birth control, to the point where I have passed out or thrown up from the pain on more than one occasion, and I was feeling just awful from the cramps that morning. I called in and told her I was sick, and she informed me that there was no way she could get someone to cover for me and I had to come in. I didn't realize at the time that this was illegal so I did as she said, and then an hour into my shift told her I was feeling worse and needed to leave. It wasn't a lie, I was feeling much much worse. She gave me an attitude and told me that she guessed if I absolutely had to leave I could, but that I should look at how busy the store was and re-evaluate my decision. I still left, and when I was told by another employee who heard the conversation that she could not force me to come in if I gave proper notice or to stay when I wasn't feeling well, I chose to contact HR. I do know that they spoke with her about the attitude she was giving employees as well as trying to force people to come in and that they never gave her a name of who had reported her (I wasn't the first to report such an incident either) though I don't know if she has changed her ways or not, but that is probably the best way to see that she gets spoken to about what she has done.

[marionravenwood.livejournal.com]

It's not "normal" for menstruation to cause problems that interfere with work or school--that's kind of the guideline for when your period is "bad" enough that you should see a doctor and try to do something so that you're not in pain every month. So if someone actually did have endometriosis of PCOS, *those* would be the conditions that you would be calling out because of, not your period itself (and hopefully you would have a diagnosis to back you up, if your employer had a problem with it).

Your boss may not be a nice person, but normal cramps really shouldn't be so bad that you can't work. Employers would be less likely to hire women if they believed they would be out every month just because of their periods.

[frolicnaked.livejournal.com]

I'd definitely encourage the OP to get checked out if she's concerned about a health condition. However, in addition to something like primary dysmenorrhea (http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/menstrual-cramps/DS00506) being a possibility, it's often pretty tricky to diagnose something like endo or PCOS.

For instance, I got my period at 14 and have had debilitating pain during menstruation since then. I've been examined for possible causes since I was 17 or so. This past October -- when I was 25, I was finally diagnosed via MRI with adenomyosis. It's actually pretty relieving to find that I had a diagnosable cause for my pain. However, for the 11 years beforehand, I had nothing to call it but "my period" or "cramps", which I'm sure sounded un-great whenever I begged out of work, school, or a social engagement.

I didn't know that my cramps were abnormally painful, and even if I had known, I didn't have anything to back it up. I've had a couple of employers who were understanding about it, but I've also had some who weren't. And it was frustrating when they didn't believe me or thought I was "being a baby."

[marionravenwood.livejournal.com]

Yeah, absolutely. I certainly didn't mean to imply that the OP's pain wasn't bad enough that she should miss work or that she should soldier on through it. And god knows women with debilitating pain or bleeding often have trouble getting a diagnosis, and sometimes the diagnosis is only "we don't know why it hurts--here take these pain meds/birth control pills/etc."--if you get any treatment at all.

I'm sure it's extremely frustrating. My only point was that periods shouldn't hurt that much.

[ratatusk.livejournal.com]

It's not "normal" for menstruation to cause problems that interfere with work or school--that's kind of the guideline for when your period is "bad" enough that you should see a doctor and try to do something so that you're not in pain every month.

Wow, I never knew that before. I always thought it was perfectly normal for it to interfere with other things. I guess just from books I read when I was teenager where someone would have cramps and stay home from from school from school curled up with a hot water bottle.

Your boss may not be a nice person, but normal cramps really shouldn't be so bad that you can't work. Employers would be less likely to hire women if they believed they would be out every month just because of their periods.

Truly? I never thought of that before. I never really realized that I had so much worse pain than everyone else. A friend once told me she had cramps at school and I was like, You can stand? You're thinking about driving? Wow! You're my superhero!

[marionravenwood.livejournal.com]

Well, it doesn't necessarily mean there's anything *wrong* with you: primary dysmennorhea just means that you have period pain that's not caused by an underlying condition. But, yeah, while most women don't enjoy getting their periods, it should just be an annoyance, not something that causes you to miss work, school, social events, etc. If your pain is really that bad, I think it's worth trying to treat it: being rid of that pain could really improve your quality of life, not just your job performance. If you are able to/want to take HBC, that does reduce period pain for a lot of people. Another trick (in case you haven't already tried this) is to take ibuprofen every few hours the day before your cramps usually start.

Full disclosure: I'm probably one of the worst people to ask about menstrual pain. Now that I'm older, I don't get cramps at all. I probably wouldn't even notice my period if it weren't for the blood. When I was in my twenties, I did get cramps occasionally, but I would just take a couple of advil and that took care of it, and if I didn't have advil, the pain wasn't any harder to put up with than a tension headache. I've never had menstrual pain that would affect my daily life. I would believe someone who said she did, though.

Coming to work during your period isn't the same as coming to work with the flu, since the flu is contagious.

[elettaria.livejournal.com]

Education is one way of dealing with it, some people assume that what you're experiencing is no worse than what they get and that you're being a fusspot. A doctor's note may be necessary, and I agree that if your periods are painful enough that you need to take time off work, you should see a doctor about them.

I've got an invisible illness, CFIDS/ME. It's extremely debilitating, I'm unable to work or study, mostly housebound, sometimes bedbound. However, it's not hugely well-known and there are lots of myths about it. The symptom it's most famous for is fatigue, although that's just the tip of the iceberg. Trying to explain to people what the fatigue is like is a nightmare, they just don't get it at all and think you're just a bit tired when you may in fact be unable to turn over in bed. I recently had a frustrating conversation with a doctor who was suggesting that I rub a medicated cream all over my body, and wouldn't believe me when I tried to explain that I was unable to remove my clothing, let alone rub something all over me, let alone several times a day. I'm always getting people saying things like, "Well I get tired as well but I still manage to hold down a job," or people who ask what the main symptoms are, I list them, and they decide that actually they must have this illness too as they also have problems with fatigue, pain, muscle weakness, joint problems, memory problems, concentration problems and so forth. (Er, not with the job they're doing, they won't.)

People usually describe pain indirectly, using metaphor. When someone says, "My feet are killing me," it's incredibly unlikely that they are actually about to die, and so it's very difficult to know just how much pain they are in. Pain scales can be very useful for this, google them and you'll find examples. Explaining in direct language how severe the pain is and how it's affecting you is probably your best bet, for instance if you're unable to stand up because of pain or if it's so severe that you're blacking out. If you're being investigated by the doctor because of the pain, then for heaven's sake say that, and if it's suspected endo or anything else that will be taken seriously, definitely mention that.

It depends very much on what this woman's like (though she sounds like a bolshy cow), but contacting her might work, it does for some. She sounds like the sort where you need to grovel a bit even when she's actually the one in the wrong. If that's the case, I'd say something like, "I'm sorry that I didn't explain this properly the other day, and I may have given the impression that I was experiencing normal menstrual cramps. They're actually much more serious than that, they're so severe that I can't stand up [or whatever] due to the pain, which also makes me throw up [or whatever], and painkillers unfortunately don't make any difference. My doctor's concerned about them and is currently investigating what might be causing them, she thinks it could be endometriosis. I can't think too well when I'm in that much pain, otherwise I'd have told you all this at the time." That might work, some people would get all gracious and be nice to you afterwards. On the other hand, there are some workplaces where they're vile to anyone who's ill no matter how legitimate it is, in which case I'd tread a lot more carefully, especially if they take this to mean that you're about to demand a lot of sick leave.

[elettaria.livejournal.com]

Incidentally, when I'm explaining PMS to people and getting the "oh, all women feel a bit wobbly before their period" response, I usually scotch that by saying firmly, "I get suicidal." That makes them realise the scale I'm talking about.

[ratatusk.livejournal.com]

Yeesh. That's terrible! If you have something that interferes with everyday life to that extent and nobody understands, there should be a device to give them the condition for a day!

[elettaria.livejournal.com]

HELL yes. Perhaps a day for people who make single comments, and a week for people who do it repeatedly or are interfering in your life. Parents, doctors, teachers, employers, welfare benefits people, for instance, and that bitch of an Occupational Therapist who decided that I was putting it on because she couldn't *see* anything wrong with me and screwed up my social care package as a result (I've been waiting for five months to get someone in to help me do various unnecessary things like cooking and bathing) gets a month minimum.

er, and I can stop grouching now. Especially since I have a jar of delicious tofu ravioli and it includes 20% extra free.

[whitneythegreat.livejournal.com]

I had this problem last year, but not with a boss. I stayed home from classes one day because of my cramps (they've always been pretty bad, my mom tells me it's genetic) and my friend was telling me I should have just sucked it up, everyone gets cramps, they can't be THAT bad, etc. It really upset me too - she had no idea how I felt! I also know I have a *low* pain tolerance. They used to be really bad (feelings of nausea, nearly passing out, sweating, etc.) and now I'm on BC and they're much better but still relatively painful for someone as wussy as me :-P

Eventually I just blew off her comment, but that "friend" is known for not being empathetic to anyone really. She can be a bitch sometimes, eh. I've gotten used to never coming to her with problems.

So, I don't have any real advice, but I do understand what it's like to have someone blow off your pain, when they don't know what it's like.