(no subject)

[mactavish.livejournal.com]

As least 100 Kenyan girls are in hiding from their parents as they seek to escape forced Female Genital Mutilation (FGM).

I'm glad that they've learned that there is an option, and that there's a place for them to hide. I hope that having an intact vulva is prized by men these women will be with in the future.

Comments

[littlone.livejournal.com]

I'm not going to say much about this, as I'm anti circumcision (male OR female), and my opinions may offend someone else.

(I'd be forced to comment on how this makes the news, but the many boys this happens to every day get no news covereage)

[mactavish.livejournal.com]

Well, you weren't forced to comment on how this makes the news while the many boys this happens to every day aren't given the same coverage, but you did anyway. And I'm sure it's fine, as vaginapagina hasn't historically been an area where folks avoid discussing controversial subjects.

[littlone.livejournal.com]

Sorry, the subject pisses me off, but I wanted to put my stance out.

Wasn't trying to upset you, I'm sorry.

[mactavish.livejournal.com]

You didn't upset me at all. I just figure if you're going to comment, just *comment* -- saying, "I'm not going to do it" and then doing it anyway feels to me (I might be wrong) like somehow trying to avoid responsibility for bringing up a controversial subject. Or maybe it's just a way of apologizing in advance for doing it. It might be something I haven't got a clue about.

vaginapagina is a safe place to be brave!

Re:

[littlone.livejournal.com]

It was a way of apologizing beforehand....not trying to avoid responsibility, but just trying to get my thoughts out without getting onto my soapbox. That's why I kept it short and said I wasn't going to say much on the subject.


*grin* By nature, I am not brave:)

[firinel.livejournal.com]

yay! thanks for saying something anyway.
I agree, and it doesn't seem to be a popular position in America.

Should we ever want an easy out, and not give the long answer, we have the lucky option of just saying "we thought he should be like his dad - see, its not really done routinely in England."

Re:

[littlone.livejournal.com]

Oh, you are lucky. My ex (my son's father) was circumcised, so we didn't have that excuse.

The arguments and dissonance from my family was hard to deal with at first, but they've all seemed to accept that I didn't want to make that decision for my son.

And we've had no problems with the uncircumcised penis so far (excpet for the cereal in his pee pee...That was an amusing story that I'm going to be telling his girlfriends:)).

[mikasi.livejournal.com]

I had a malay female friend who had yhad a "female circumcision". Her attitude about it at age 40 wsa about the same as my attitude at that age about my male circumcision - as we did not know what we missed we felt no loss. Does this make it right? No. But I thought it was interesting talking to her about it.

Oh

[jaclyn.livejournal.com]

This is one subject where I haven't truly made up my mind yet, but thanks to VP, it's made me think.

Here I have this stance saying "no that's wrong! that's horrible!" and I totally was ignorant to the fact that we circumcise boys every day, as it's 'tradition'.

I think the biggest difference is the women unable to receive sexual pleasure and the men still being able to. I think that's why it seems *okay* for guys, but not for girls.

I honestly don't know if I will get my son circumcised. I don't think I will, and will give him the option to do so if he sees fit. Thanks to VP, this has been brought to my attention and I am able to think for myself.

*shrugs*

[littlone.livejournal.com]

My son's not circumcised, and yes, I've had to explain it several times (and have been told that my son will hate me when he gets older because of it), but my opinion is, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. And I've read how it's done...I nearly threw up when I read it (I was pregnant at the time).

[pfc-rat.livejournal.com]

Before I say anything, I just want to say that this is meant to be a question (for my knowledge) and NOT an attack or a flame.

That being said...

I have a friend who, for medical reasons, had to be circumcised in his mid 20s. After his recovery from the surgery, he said that sex was way better, he had less problems keeping it clean, and thought it was the best thing to ever happen to him. So, why is this considered mutilation? Is it just the non-consensual part you object to, or the procedure altogether? I don't have children myself, but if I ever had, I had never really thought of it as a big issue. I was there when my nephew was circumcised, and he SLEPT through it (and even managed to pee on the doctor), so it couldn't have been that painful. What's the big controvercy?

[tree]

i'd be interested in hearing all the pros and cons of male circumcision too. i do know that uncircumcised males are more likely to get fungal/yeast infections/thrush. i've also read, though, that sex can be more pleasurable because the foreskin can be manipulated.

[ex-catlips.livejournal.com]

From the information I've gathered concerning FGM there are different degrees of mutilation depending of what region one lives in. Also, not ALL of such mutilations are preformed in the typical 'dirty razor blade' fashion we seem to hear of most. These 'operations' are also preformed in Dr offices ( in the U.S. as well!) with a higher level of sanitation (in some circumstances that is). The most 'common' sort of FGM is NOT removal of the clitoris but rather the inner labia. The open tissues are then fused together in a variety of ways making the vaginal/urethral opening the desired small size. A TOTAL nullification ( removal of clit AND labias ) happens rarely and only in particular regions. I think this is a common misunderstanding among us Westerners, we only know the extreme situations as that is what's fed to us. So, in general these woman ARE left with the ability of sexual pleasure though, as is in male circumcision, infection and scarring are almost always an occurrence.

Personally, I'm opposed to ALL non-consensual mutilation (includes piercing a babies ears!). I sure don't know why a parent would have a 3X5 card size of erogenous tissue removed from their hours old infant ( male circ) even if they are among the 'lucky' 10% recieving pain mediction. After looking at the tools used for either male of female mutilation and the similar 'I'm cut and I'm okay' justifications of BOTH men and woman who have been mutilated it seems bizarre to me to subject a child to it regardless of one's preference for the looks of genitals.

Give them the choice

[fionaukuk.livejournal.com]

I think no children should be mutilated before they are able to make the decision for themselves.In Kenya it is illegal to mutilate a girl under the age of seventeen but after they become that age they can ask to have it done.I think that should be the same all over the world for both sexes.I really do not think very many people would choose to mutilate their genitals if they had a choice but if they did then it would be their decision.It has more to do with culture than laws anyway because fgm is totally illegal here in England but the groups who do it don't respect our laws and just do it anyway and I have never heard or any prosecutions.Fiona

[misfitmonkey.livejournal.com]

Thanks for posting that... I was just about to mention it here and it's good to see that other people are aware of the issue.

[punkrawkmama77.livejournal.com]

I'm glad to hear that the girls are being educated about what FGM does and standing up for themselves, and that there are people willing to help them!

I've also heard that the circumscion of baby boys in the US has been declining. Yay!

[hokahey.livejournal.com]

"No-one helped them run away. They know we have been teaching against the dangers of FGM"

She said as soon as a girl was circumcised "she is given up to her husband".

"We want them to get their eduction."

I would run away too! :) I'm proud of them for running away. That takes eggs.

[sivatonight.livejournal.com]

I think that infant circumcision, whether on females or males, is wrong.

If I have a son, I don't want him to be circumcised. Should he choose to do so when he is older and educated on the decision, then that will be his choice. I refuse, however, to make a choice like that for a young baby who doesn't know what is happening.

That's just my humble 2 cents, though.

[xuxu.livejournal.com]

i don't think many realise that FGM actually means partial or whole removing of clitoris (or in some cases just labias). for boys, the removing of their shaft part is NOT an actual sex "organ".. sure, some say their penis would be more sensitive if they had the shaft left. yet, it doesn't have a DIRECT impact on how they experience sex. AND MGM is NOT a life-threat to the boy where as FGM can kill the girl. i think this needs to be acknowledged before comparing female and male circumcision.

anyway. here's a good page http://www.fgmnetwork.org .. i totally find FGM disturbing. MGM doesn't disturb me much at all cos i don't find it to be a same thing.

when it comes to the mutilation level...of course i'd rather let my son to decide himself if he wanted his penis mutilated.

[perplexxi.livejournal.com]

i agree, it's apples and oranges.

i don't see why, in a community about vaginas, male circumcision needs to be brought up every single time FGM is. there's always a few people who get in a huff and deter any of us from simply discussing FGM without the "how hypocritical and one-sided!" comments. i find it offensive, insensitive, and ignorant. though i'm sure it'd be different if they were one of the women affected.

it's the reason i never comment on posts made about FGM; i don't need to be reprimanded on my feelings/concerns/ideas, especially by someone who doesn't see a difference in the two practices.

[xuxu.livejournal.com]

i don't see why, in a community about vaginas, male circumcision needs to be brought up every single time FGM is.

yeah. it feels that MGM is eating the seriousness of FGM away. i really hope that people research topics more before replying...cos things aren't so black and white as it sometimes would seem like!

got to keep on just educating the public. :)