(( VaginaPagina ))

...and I thought that was way out of line of them. They had another article in "Dying for Decadence" that only those "moon types" (or something to that effect) really had any connection to their periods, and that everyone else has been brainwashed into finding them horribly inconvenient and gross.

Good lord. For such a progressive magazine, I'd think that they'd get that surpressing the menstrual cycle is a much more complicated decision than just "I want to buy fewer tampons." I may be going out on a limb here, but in the south, they say "don't trust anything that bleeds for five days and doesn't die." The menstrual cycle has been turned against women for eons, so learning to control it, and therefore being able to lead a life without reference to it once a month, really does put women on a more equal footing. But that's kind of an out-there theory: if you no longer bleed for five days without dying on a regular basis, as the saying goes, there is less to hold against a woman just for the sake of holding something against her.

That's kind of out there, though.

I'm on seasonale (everyone knows that), but it's because I get menstrual migraines. Not because I think my period is "gross." I kind of miss it, sometimes.

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hahah being able to "control" our periods hardly is a step towards equality for women.. puh-leeze. and the "bleed for five days" quote is so horribly ignorant I don't even know where to start with that, considering most of a woman's period isn't even BLOOD.

in other cultures the menstrual cycle is CELEBRATED, here we hide it, and try to get rid of it. that's the point they're making.

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starsorstreet.livejournal.com

I totally agree

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howmanyfates.livejournal.com

"in other cultures the menstrual cycle is CELEBRATED, here we hide it, and try to get rid of it. that's the point they're making."

Fucking EXACTLY! Oh my god, I thought I would be the only woman here who agreed with the adbusters. In this culture, we DO vilify the menstrual cycle. FUck, just look at the GODDAMN tv ads, for shits-sake:

"Midol: because your period is more than just a pain."

Kotex: the implication that your period is always showing up at the "wrong" time. I.E during vacation, prom, going beaching, etc.

The ad w/ 3 women in dressing rooms and one of them is bitching about being on her period and even has the fucking gumption to say "how long till menopause?" while the other women moan and groan in agreement.

WTF IS this shit? and how can you NOT see where adbusters is going? They aren't dissing BC in general, just women's tendency to want to "make it all go away". I, myself do NOT believe in chemical BC for biological reasons, not moral ones (it can change the acidity of the vagina, making it more susceptible to bacterial infection, a decrease in the Drive, possible weight gain...plus I think it's just flat-out against my _own_ biology to fuck with my beautiful cycle that way. I'm a condom kind of grrrl, as it is ;) )

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Oh yeah, let's not forget the commercials about more "discreet" sounding pads so other ladies in the washroom won't hear those HORRIBLE pad noises! Or the various tampon commercials involving teenage girls. I don't think I need to elaborate. Anyone who thinks this culture ISN'T encouraging us to be ashamed of our periods is in total denial, and I think a lot of people are misinterpreting what Adbusters was trying to say...

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perfectlyhappy.livejournal.com

Actually in many cultures, women who are bleeding are shunned... ever hear of the red tent? Men are not even allowed to be around them.

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Yes I am aware of that, but that wasn't the point I was trying to make.. because our culture acts terribly about our cycles, and just because there are other cultures where they might be worse doesn't mean we can't improve our attitudes.

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lizzvoltage.livejournal.com

Actually, women loved the red tent. No men. Sit around with your sisters and mothers and girlfriends for five days, give each other footrubs, talk, don't work. The red tent was not the jail many people think it was.

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The problem is the fact that so many women find it a horrible, disgusting inconvenience. Sure, it's mostly the fault of the way our society is structured, not really the fault of the women, but that wasn't the point, IMO..

and I think the cancer thing is a bunch of BS.. I highly doubt our bodies would put us through something totally NATURAL that causes cancer. Everything causes cancer nowadays and I'm not quick to believe everything the medical community says considering how much of it is just corporate-funded propaganda to keep us consuming.

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You do realize that Adbusters is not written by one person, or one group of people, right? They publish different viewpoints, so it's more the WRITER'S stance than ADBUSTERS' stance.

Again, I think it is highly damaging to promote the idea that our periods are BAD. It's just pushing us further and further away from nature.

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Heh, okay, we agree then :) I didn't read the actual article. I am just assuming that it was commenting more on the way that we act about menstruation in general, since a lot of the stuff published in the magazine tends to be about our separation from nature. It's like their constant commenting on anti depressants and the drug industry and how depression, anxiety, add and all those things are results of the shitty American lifestyle - I have some things I *should* be medicated for, and at first I took it personally because I know changing my lifestyle won't get rid of all the unstability in my mind and I found that implication to be insulting. But then I realized how much truth there was to it - how Americans are becoming more and more depressed and we "solve" all our problems by popping pills - while the drug industries create new "diseases" (like 'selective mutism' which we used to refer to as shyness) to medicate people for. Sorry, went off on a rant but I think they got backlash for that, for the same reason - misunderstanding, since we often don't detach ourselves to look at the big picture while reading such articles.

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Not just people, preschoolers (http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,62154,00.html?tw=wn_story_top5).

Some may defend this as anxiety (why do they give it a new name, then? selective mutism? puhleeze.. most children go through a shy phase..) but I've had serious social anxiety for my entire life... and I am sure as hell glad that I wasn't forced to go on meds when I was too young to understand what was going on and my brain was nowhere near finished developing yet. Now that I'm older I know how messed up that stuff is and I refuse to put it into my body as difficult as that makes my life... knowing that they are putting 2 and 3 year old children on it.. UGH...

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shallowgothgirl.livejournal.com

I agree! My desire to start Seasonale has nothing to do with the costs or having equal footing! It was a choice made after my period evolved into the monster I now deal with. My BF is extremely understanding of my choices and my concerns for vaginal health. He supports and listens to everything I decide to do or say. I've found that a lot of men today actually are concerned for their GFs and female family members when it comes to these issues.

My period ranges from 7-17 days based on my diet and or any other medications I take or have taken. Now this started after having given birth back in December. I hate the fact that I now have to deal with the pain and mess every 11-21 days! I just finished a 17 day period and will have to endure it again in 11! My period is fairly regular as a 28 day cycle and I am not on bc.

By taking Seasonale I hope to reduce the pain and time I have my period.

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pet-dreams.livejournal.com

Haha, that makes me want to stab the person saying it so they bleed continuously for five days. Rawr.

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"The menstrual cycle has been turned against women for eons, so learning to control it, and therefore being able to lead a life without reference to it once a month, really does put women on a more equal footing"

This isn't the kind of equal footing I want. I do not want to be a man. I want to be a woman. A woman who bleeds. And I want that to be respected.

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I'm not saying that regulating the menstrual cycle into nonexistance is necessarily a good thing. And I'm not saying that men who hold it against women are right.

But that these things happen. The menstrual cycle has been used against women in, I do not hesitate to say, the vast majority of cultures. I like mine. I miss it when I don't have it for three months at a time. But better learning how to control the menstrual cycle does mean that it cannot be used against women to the same extent that it has been.

Learning to control it can become a reappropriation of it. It is no longer a burden or a monthly curse (again, common terms I have heard for periods), but just another aspect of feminity.

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Why not work on changing attitudes instead of submitting to dominant cultural ideas?

Supressing menstruation is playing into cultural beliefs that say having a period 'holds me back' and makes me somehow weak and fragile. Even if it is just to try and gain some kind of equal footing (which, by the way, I don't understand - is it on your resume that you bleed less and therefore would make a better employee?) is as good as saying these cultural beliefs are correct.

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But the whole point of what I'm getting at is that Adbusters was trying to say that many women think that "having a period 'holds me back' and makes me somehow weak and fragile." I am not one of these women. I do not mind my period, I am not freaked out by blood. I am a migraneur. My period takes me out of commission due to debilitating headaches.

Menstrual surpression is about more than "submitting to dominant cultural ideas." It's about finding a way to deal with our bodies and the problems that can sometimes arise from an otherwise normal function. One would never tell a woman who suffers from endometriosis that her surpression of her cycle stems from this submission. She is not passing judgement on cultural ideals, nor is she "saying these cultural beliefs are correct." She is controlling her health.

The menstrual cycle has been a subject of mystery and revulsion by a lot of people out there, which is a fact that's easy to forget in a community like vaginapagina. When I talk to people I meet on the street, the menstrual cycle is "unmentionable" for both women and men. Women blush to bring it up, and find it vile. Most people do not have sex on their periods. This is an unfortunate and unhealthy attitude, but the fact remains that it is common.

A product like Seasonale takes away the mystery from the menstrual cycle, and once that's gone, it is no longer something that can be used against women. I'm not saying that it makes women "bleed less and therefore would make [better employees]," but that the menstrual cycle is no longer something to be feared.

It's the difference between deliberately shunning a natural thing (which is a co

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the difference between deliberately shunning a natural thing (which is a common attitude) and making the natural fuction not an issue. It's not that in getting rid of periods we are suddenly equal to men, but that in learning how to control them, we make them less mysterious, and therefore not a process that can be used against us to mark us as inferior.

I use the term "us" in the broadest possible sense, meaning "all women" and not "you and me."

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On the one hand you are talking about supressing menstruation for 'debilitating migraines' and serious health issues, and on the other taking it to 'control' periods and make us less mysterious.

These are two totally separate issues. I would not deny a woman medically indicated drug therapy. But, I highly doubt that more than a fraction of women on Seasonale are taking it for serious medical reasons. I suspect the vast majority of women are taking it because they find menstruation inconvenient.

I can agree to disagree on this issue, but let me repeat my main point, just so I am clear. I believe menstruation is normal, natural and healthy. It is not a 'condition' or an 'illness'. It does not make me mysterious, weak or inferior. The way to change cultural beliefs that say menstruation is weaks us weak and inferior is through persistence, education, communication and being vocal. Supressing menstruation does nothing but add to the cultural commentary that says women's bodies and weak and disfunctional.

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I agree that menstruation is not a condition or an illness. I do not think that it makes me weak or inferior. But considering the dominant cultural opinion, which I gather is something you don't much care for doing, learning about the menstrual cycle and learning how to control it--or not control it, as the case may be--demystifies it for men and women who are ignorant about their bodies. This form of birth control can help us change the dominant paradigm. It does NOT say that we are weak and disfunctional. It makes the menstrual cycle less "scary" to the vast majority of people out there who don't know a whole lot about it--and most people really don't know a whole lot about it. Once people have an avenue for no longer finding things mysterious or foreign or scary, there is an opportunity for education.

I think we agree on some major points: menstruation is natural, healthy, and good, illnesses relating to menstruation suck and the option to regulate them should be available, and menstruating does NOT make women weak and/or disfunctional.

We disagree only on the place of surpression of menstruation in society: I say it provides an opportunity for education of sorts, or a demystification of a female phenomenon. You cay that it furthers the belief that getting rid of mensturation would make women stronger. I respectfully disagree with you. It's a question of whether or not this medical technology will help shift a paradigm or help strengthen it.

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I'm not totally convinced that supressing menstruation with chemicals leads to education. How many men have even heard of seasonale? How many even care to know about how a woman's cycle works? And how will informing men/women about a new way of chemically controlling menstruation lead to education about normal and natural menstruation? What I worry about your proposal is that if controlling menstruation leads to education about menstruation (and I don't believe that it does), it will take DECADES for the information to filter down through to the general population and lead to attitudinal changes. By this time everyone will be experiencing altered/supressed menstrual cycles, and there will be no need for anyone to be aware about what is normal and natural to a woman's body! And with everyone menstruation only 1/4th of the time - Why will it really matter what people think of menstruation?

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It won't take decades. I rarely watch tv, but it seems that every time I turn the thing on, there's a commercial for seasonale, and how you can safely have four periods a year. There's where the education comes in: someone, anyone, sees that kind of stuff on TV and is bound to get curious. There is the opportunity for education. I'm not saying that surpressing menstruation is inheritly educational--oh no--but the fact that seasonale has already become one of the most widely prescribed birth control pills indicates that there's definitely a move afoot.

That indicates to me that this information is already filtering down to the general population. "This information" would be information about menstruation, and one cannot discuss unnatural or medicated periods without discussing natural and normal ones. Therefore, there must be educating going on right now, if the adds are on all the time, the drug is constantly being prescribed, and therefore more women, and presumably more men, are finding out new information about the menstrual cycle in general.

I don't think that there will ever be a time when, as soon as a girl reaches puberty, she's put on menstruation-regulating medication. Therefore, I think that there will never be a time when "everyone will be experiencing altered/supressed menstrual cycles, and there will be no need for anyone to be aware about what is normal and natural to a woman's body".

Why will it matter what people think of menstruation? It's never going away. It will always be there, even if we can regulate it to coming once every other day during the period week, twice on sundays, and half as heavy at 9:37pm. Or never--there's a pill in the works for that, but I doubt that many women will want to be on it. The spotting would be killer.

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Woah - the education you are talking about is the whole "you can safely have four periods a year" and "it's not natural to bleed every month because normally we would be pregnant all the time business????? The validity of that claim is still very much under dispute amongst health care practitioners as far as I am concerned. I don't think we should be running around trying to 'educate' the public about facts that in my opinion have been spun to meet the objectives of a pharmaceutical company!

As for it not being a possibility that girls just reaching menarche will be regulating their period - take a look around! I've seen lots of posts and talked to many girls who are on hormonal birth control as young as 13, 14, 15!

This whole discussion has got me thinking that menstruation is an endangered species!

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Really young girls, while they are being more commonly placed on birth control, will always be the exception, rather than the rule. I started having my period at 11.

And that's not the kind of education I'm talking about. You cannot talk about menstrual surpression without talking about the natural mechanics of menstruation itself, how it's natrual, and not the least bit gross. The two go hand in hand. Don't be afraid that I think women should always be pregnant... I may be Southern, but I'm not crazy ;)

That was clearly a joke, I hope I don't offend anyone too much!

Menstruation is not an endangered species, never fear. Most women probably won't do any kind of menstrual surpression, because when you get down to it, many people need a monthly flag that they're not pregnant. I'm currently not sexually active, so I couldn't care less about that. About the young girls--vaginapagina is extremely likely to distort the size of the population that is both very young and on hormonal birth control.

I apoligize if my arguments were abrasive, it's not been my intent to insult.

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I totally agree with all of this :)

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sugarrush2007.livejournal.com

well, the south is also home to humidity. and heat rash. not a fun time to be dealing with periods.

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mangofandango.livejournal.com

Yeah, I heard about that article (granted, I didn't read it - is it online anywhere?), and I resented the implication that because my birth control method causes me not to have periods (I use a Mirena IUD), I'm somehow a misled woman who hates her body. I actually really miss my period, and I wish I still got them...but the Mirena was the best choice for me in every other regard, and I can't be on combined BCPs because of my migraines, so I accept not having periods for a while as part of the deal. It's a little different with Seasonale, because many women do elect to take it in order to have fewer periods a year. But that's their choice, and it's their right to make that choice. I would like a more period-friendly culture, but that's not really the point. Besides, many women are on it for health reasons (like menstrual migraines), and there's research that indicates that it's healthy to suppress periods some of the time, so the condemnation seems a bit hasty and poorly thought out to me.

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melena.livejournal.com

WAIT do women usually not get their periods when they have an iud?? i thought they did, and that it potentially made premenstrual cramping worse (not the cramping on insertion...).

is that because you have minera? (that's the one with the low dose of hormones, right?)

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mangofandango.livejournal.com

Right - Mirena lightens periods and in some women, may stop them. I don't really get periods, I just get occassional bouts of very, very light spotting and mild cramping that last a couple of weeks (this happens like, every few months now. In the beginning it happened more often). Some women don't stop getting periods, they just get lighter and usually more irregular. And yes, Mirena is the one with the teeny dose of progestin. :)

The copper IUD is the one that tends to make periods heavier and more painful, at least for the first few months.

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melena.livejournal.com

ohhhh, thanks for the info.

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jennifer0246.livejournal.com

i love my body and my cycle, but my cycles causes me great pain, so i use seasonale to suppress it so that my pain is less frequent and more easily managed. i violently dislike when people try to get in my head and say things about me that simply aren't true at all.

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elfbabe.livejournal.com

I use my birth control pills to skip periods all the time. I may go the normal four weeks between periods, or six and a half weeks, or two months. My period comes when I expect it to come and when I WANT it to come. It doesn't disable me with near-crippling cramps. I never have to say/think, "Oh goddamn it, stupid period, not NOW!" or hope and hope that it'll hold off for a few more days or count ahead months on the calendar to see whether I should dread a trip or look forward to it. Seeing that first little bit of blood after I've been off active pills for a few days doesn't make me upset or disappointed. I just think, "Oh good, it's here!" and grab my Keeper. I LIKE my period now, while I used to hate it.

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salmonsushi.livejournal.com

i suppress my period as well. not for social or political reasons but because i feel like it. i'm not ashamed of my period, i'd just rather not have it at times. i dont think that not having it makes me an equal to men- i think that's ridiculous. men and women are very different and we have to realize that is ok.
everyone has their own reason for doing things- why should i or anyone else judge them for that?

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