(( VaginaPagina ))

Everything above and the last part, so much ! There's nothing like pressure and feeling obligated to ruin the mood.

Just because you agreed you would have it on his birthday, weeks in advance, doesn't predict how you'll feel at that very moment. Sex should be spontaneous, you should trust your instincts (and by that I mean want it REAL BAD NOW!), and in my humble opinion, it's not a gift, especially not your first time, the one that you'll most likely remember for a long time, and, coincidentally, that's likely to be the worst sex in your life ! ;)

(IMPORTANT NOTE : Many people enjoy their first time very much and keep a very fond memory of it, especially if it came at the right time, with the right person etc. What I meant by "worst sex" is purely because, like everything else, it gets much better over time with practice. So both of you, don't expect fireworks. You'll feel so much better for the lack of pressure.)

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Sex does not have to be spontaneous! That's a very pernicious meme and it's a bad one for anyone who winds up having kids or other situations that need scheduling.

Sex does have to be wanted, though. Not coerced, not pressured. Agreed there.

Must run!

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knittinggoddess.livejournal.com

I disagree that you shouldn't plan it. Maybe, "as you discuss and plan sex, try not to script things to the letter or get strong expectations about how glorious and perfect it's going to be". Because while having conversation and consideration about clear boundaries and expectations is great, we're human and sex is messy.

Trust your instincts, I agree with that.

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Ok, I agree, you're free to plan sex however early in advance, especially if you need to because you don't get to see each other very often, you have kids to care for or a busy schedule, you're trying to get pregnant, need to remember to buy condoms, etc.

What I really meant was, just because you've planned it, and even if it's your boyfriend's birthday and he wants to have sex and you love him very much, you should still feel free and comfident to say "look, I'm not really in the mood right now", if that's how you feel. And I believe that this should be very clear in your mind, so you don't feel obligated. It seems obvious to say, but sometimes on your first time, with the build-up of expectations on both sides, suddenly things aren't so obvious.

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the-bone-doctor.livejournal.com

Hi there, just want to point out that the word "clean" is problematic when discussing STIs. I have herpes and I am very clean, thank you! A better word is "STI-free."

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Well, Plan B is birth control in that it lowers the chances of pregnancy. But it's much less effective than most other types of birth control. And like you said it can have some nasty side effects (although not everyone experiences them! Many people don't.)

I do think that what is the "best choice" depends on the person and their situation. Many people do decide that the pill alone is the right birth control for them, and that they are comfortable with whatever level of STI risk is present in their relationship. I tend to think that as long as a person chooses what is comfortable for them, that's the right decision...because it's impossible to say for someone else what their priorities should be. Like for me, I choose to use only one method of birth control, because that's what works. I could add condoms to the mix, but I don't really care for them, and at this point in my life pleasure *is* a higher priority than super duper reliable pregnancy protection.

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frolicnaked.livejournal.com

Hi

sarry777,

I'm writing as a VP maintainer to remind you that VP is a safe space, and parts of your comment may be hurtful to some of our members.

When you say that sex without a condom is "not safe" or that "Using the pill and a condom is DEFINITELY the best choice here," that's substituting your judgment of safer sex practices for the OP's -- the person who's actually considering and/or having the sex in that situation. That is, while you may consider condomless sex an unacceptable risk for you, a number of other people make informed choices to have condomless sex. It's up to the OP to weigh the benefits and risks in this situation and to decide whether condomless sex is appropriate for them.

Additionally, in the future, it's important to avoid making comments in VP that use the word "clean" to mean "STI-free." Using "clean" that way implies that people who have STIs are "dirty," and we prefer not to further that harmful stereotype.

This is a friendly reminder to please review VP's policies to help us make VP a nicer place for everyone. You can follow these links for more information:

--What are VP's rules? (http://wiki.vaginapagina.com/index.php?title=VaginaPagina_FAQ#What_are_the_rules.3F)
--What is "safe space"? What does "empowerment" mean? What does "accountability" look like? (http://wiki.vaginapagina.com/index.php?title=VaginaPagina_FAQ#Safe_Space)

Please don't think we're scolding you or don't want you here. We issue safe space reminders to help our members acknowledge and include everyone, and to help keep VP a safe space for all. We hope you'll continue to participate in VP with this in mind. Safe space means a lot to many of our members, and it's amazing how much we can help just by being a little more careful with what we say.

If you'd like to talk more, your thoughts are welcome in

contact_vp or via email (vpteam@vaginapagina.com). However, we just ask that you not discuss your reminder in this VP thread, since it would draw attention away from the original post.

Thanks for understanding.
Tori
For the VP Team

contact_vp

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seamouse.livejournal.com

ditto - I've used plan B and I felt off for a few days, had a period a few days after that, reset my cycle and felt like hell for a few weeks after that. That's a lot for you to go through just so he can have bareback birthday sex. You sound like a very giving partner, but don't give so much that you're hurting yourself.

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Also, about birth control : read through your pamphlet, but according to planned parenthood online (somebody provide a link please?) you can start most pills, or at least the 21/7 ones ANY DAY and consider ir effective by the 7 th pill. However, I still agree that adding a condom is much safer for both of you. You shouldn't take risks for a few seconds (or minutes ^^) of added pleasure.

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"However, I still agree that adding a condom is much safer for both of you. You shouldn't take risks for a few seconds (or minutes ^^) of added pleasure."

This is kind of judgmental. Using HBC as the only form of birth control is completely safe and there is nothing inherently "bad" or necessarily "risky" about it. If the OP is making an informed decision to not use condoms while on BC, you should respect that decision regardless of what kinds of risks you are comfortable with.

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I didn't mean to be judgmental. I know it's fine to rely on the pill as a single method of birth control, actually t'is what I do.

What I was thinking about, in this particular situation, is the STI status of OP's boyfriend, which we don't know about, and also, to a lesser degree, that OP is just starting with hbc and this particular pill, so we don't know how well it's gonna go. I did mention that the pill is effective (against pregancies) after the 7th pill, so theoretically it's fine.

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I understand, but there are better ways of phrasing that so as to not come across like you're judging everyone who doesn't use condoms. For example, "You might still consider using condoms because of X, Y, Z. I don't personally use them but it's something to think about!" The way you have it phrased basically passes judgment on every person who doesn't use condoms, instead of offering a helpful suggestion to just the OP.

VP's safe space usually means it takes putting some extra thought and rephrasing into what you'd normally say to make sure everyone feels comfortable and accepted here. :) It can take a while to get the hang of it.

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I'm sorry for potentially hurting someone's feelings and will try to do some extra rephrasing efforts in the future. I may sound more harsh than I intend to sometimes, it's the trick of writing in a foreign language, but I appreciate the need for a safe space. :)

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Absolutely no problem, and you're so awesome for understanding! VP is unique in the way that we interact here, so it can take some getting used to, even for native English-speakers. :) I also can sometimes come across harsher than intended so I totally get that as well.

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A is, forgive me, extremely sub-optimal. Plan B is Plan B, not Plan A. It is very effective, but it still has a failure rate, and the high dose of hormones may make your system upset, and almost certainly will make your bleeding cycles wonky -- and has a chance of doing that even if you are on another form of HBC. Basically... save Plan B for a real emergency.

Now, the thing about HBC. It takes, for most brands of pill, 1 week to hypnotize the ovaries ("Youuuuu already ovuuuuulated! Don't dooooo it again!"). If you start on the first day of your period, that week overlaps with the days of bleeding which, on your natural period, are a very good sign that you are not ovulating, so you are considered protected "immediately" if you start on your period. If you start at any other time, you are protected after 7 days (on most brands, including Leven Ed).

Now, there are still good reasons to use backup contraception even when you are fully protected. Primarily, if this is the first time that you have been on HBC, you do not yet know if your body will react okay (as most do), or if you will have side effects. And though it's rare, some people have side effects (such as an allergic reaction!) that require them to discontinue the pill immediately. (That's where Plan B would come in, potentially.)

No one can tell you if your body will react well or badly to this pill. NO ONE. Everyone gets to make their own roll on the Random Side Effects Table. However, finding out if the side effects are just too awful or not tends to show up in... the first month.

Likewise, if you take your first 7 pills perfectly, but then your habit of pill-taking falls apart and you miss days, you could put yourself at risk of ovulation. And to establish a habit securely takes... about a month!

Which is basically why doctors suggest taking a month before relying on the pill alone. They don't want you to be scared to take the pill or second-guess yourself into thinking you have side effects (when all you actually have is stress about side effects, or really minor side effects magnified by stress), so they don't say that part. And they know that most everyone will say, "Oh, it's fine, I can take my pills perfectly from the start!" when human nature is such that a lot of them won't.

So it's a good idea to use backup contraception for at least a month, but it's not because you're not protected -- it's because there are a couple things that could go wrong that could compromise your protection.

Now, using a backup form of contraception doesn't have to be condoms. It can be spermicidal foam (or film, or suppositories), contraceptive sponges, or even withdrawal, if your partner is good at that. (And the withdrawal method is simple in concept, but often very hard to master, especially for younger penis-equipped folks.) You could go bare for a short time and then put on a condom. You could use an expensive lambskin condom (NaturaLamb brand in the US), which my spouse says feels about as good as bare!

Anyway, you'll notice that the only thing I've said is that using Plan B as Plan A isn't optimal. The rest is information, so you can make your choices.

(Further data:
• No, the morning after pill will not interfere with HBC. Plan B is basically a larger dose of a progesterone, and your pill is a combined estrogen/progesterone pill anyway.
• Yes, you can always pair up forms of contraception. Check out http://www.scarleteen.com/article/reproduction/the_buddy_system_effectiveness_rates_for_backing_up_your_birth_control_with_a_s for more data!
• When you are on your withdrawal bleed, it is NOT your period. It is your withdrawal bleed. The hormones drop, your uterus gets that as a signal to bleed, and your ovaries start waking up. This is why you need to follow the 21/7 rule. 21 (or more!) days of active pills, and no more than 7 (fewer is fine!) days without them. If you go longer, then even if your uterus is still bleeding, your ovaries may wake up enough to ovulate.)

I must run! Good luck!

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knittinggoddess.livejournal.com

This this all of it.
Also, don't forget about the risk of stis: as people said above, condoms are the only method that is protective against those. Scarleteen.com's Infection Section has great resources on that front.

Is there any other special element you could incorporate for his birthday, one you feel more comfortable fulfilling? Longer oral, dress up, etc? You could even just try out funky fancy condoms.

For what it's worth, my boyfriend doesn't think there's much of a sensory difference between condom and bare, and I agree. The differences to me were really only noticeable after not using condoms for a while and then going back. Our first condom free go was thus kind of anticlimactic.

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the-bone-doctor.livejournal.com

Hi there, I'm glad you felt comfortable to post to this community! If you are ready for sex and excited about it, then congratulations! I hope you have a wonderful first time. Since you are asking for opinions, I'll share my own experience. I have had to use the morning after pill a few times, and each time it has thrown my cycle off significantly- excess bleeding, longer cycle, and intense emotions. I also had a lot of tummy issues (diarrhea, upset stomach). Finally, one of the times it was ineffective and I got pregnant even though I took it within 12 hours. Plan B is great as a backup plan, but it doesn't always work and is probably not a great frontline plan. Condoms and/or oral contraceptive pills have a much much higher rate of effectiveness, so I'd strongly suggest using them separately or together. As you've already found out, you won't be optimally protected during your first week of using the pill, so it's best to double up or simply wait for that week. As others have mentioned, perhaps there are other ways to make your boyfriend's birthday special? Maybe even a sexy IOU? (Although sex is not a transaction and I hope you know that you don't need to do it if you're not 100% into it.) People are giving you all sorts of great advice here- I hope you aren't overwhelmed! Remember, have fun, and safety can be sexy too!

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You can start taking your BC any time, you don't have to wait for your period to start. So if I were you I'd start it ASAP so you can get used to taking it on time and be fully protected by the time your boyfriend's birthday rolls around. You also don't need to take Plan B if you're using your birth control correctly, but if you feel more comfortable using a condom + BC totally go for it. Lots of people do that for added pregnancy protection and STI protection.

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svexsal.livejournal.com

In addition to the others, this is a great comment. If the OP were to start taking the pill now, she'd be on her placebo week and fully protected and able to go without condoms by her boyfriend's birthday. If, that is, what she really wants to do.

I hope she considers of the advice she's been given while making a decision she's most comfortable with.

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True, if OP were to start her pills now, she'll be on her placebo week 3 weeks later, which means she might be on her withdrawal bleed. Some people don't mind having sex while bleeding, but for others that's something to consider...

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fushigi-na-chou.livejournal.com

I wanted to add my two cents regarding starting your pill immediately. Like others have said, you can totally do that if you choose, and you will have full pregnancy protection by the time your boyfriend's birthday rolls around. The only potential downside is that it can have side effects of its own. I'm often too impatient to wait for a Sunday start or first day of my period when switching brands (I've done it twice now I think?), and usually start the day I get my prescription. In my experience, I have gotten breakthrough bleeding (which, for me, was like having a period for two weeks straight) and minor cramping. However, your experience may be completely different. You may not get breakthrough bleeding at all, and if you do, it may be spotting, or it may be like a period, and it might last for a day or a few weeks. Everyone's body reacts differently. Just something to consider when thinking about starting your pill as soon as possible rather than waiting for a Sunday start or the start of your period.

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Is the pill Levlen? I can't find Leven anywhere...

I was going to say that for combined pills, if you start on the first day of your period you are protected immediately. But when I looked up the instructions for Levlen, it says it takes 14 days. This isn't what I've heard before...but I guess it's the most reliable info.

If anyone knows what this is the case, I'd love to hear. :)

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Huh! I had assumed it would be the same as all others. I must run to the GOOGLEMOBILE! (Patent pending. >_> )

http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/consumers/cmi/l/levlen.pdf says: "When no hormonal contraceptive has been used in the past month: Start taking LEVLEN ED on the first day of your cycle, i.e. the first day of menstrual bleeding. [...] LEVLEN ED will work immediately, it is not necessary to use an additional contraceptive method.

You may also start taking LEVLEN ED on days 2-3 of your cycle, but in this case make sure that you use an additional barrier contraceptive method (such as condoms) for the first 7 days of tablet-taking in the first cycle." (Emphasis mine.)

There is a whole bunch of weirdness about "take from the green section for that day of the week" that I can't parse, not having a pack to look at.

Later in the PDF, it talks about the 7-day rule (if you miss 2 pills in a row, use backup contraception for 7 days, and if you don't have 7 days of active pills after the missed ones, skip the placebos and start on the next pack).

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That makes more sense to me. This PDF (http://www.mydr.com.au/cmis/PDFs/CMI8018.pdf) is where I read otherwise, but who knows.

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*reads* That is weird. Also, it's a bit inconsistent -- it's all 14 days, 14 days, but then we get to this...

"For Levlen ED to be most effective, beige active tablets need to be taken uninterrupted for 7 days." -- and the following paragraph is all about the 7 days...

And then there's this paragraph?

"If you forget to take a white inactive tablet, take it as soon as you remember and take the next tablet at the usual time. "

Sure, the next sentence is "these are just inactives" but... why bother taking it?? Habit?

And the "if you take too many, immediately call the poison hotline! even if you have no symptoms!" paragraph is... Um. I dunno, is that typical for pill inserts? O_o

I wonder if there are .au health regs that require the 14 day stuff?

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Hm. Maybe not the most reliable resource then. OP, if you have the packet of info that came with your pills, you could look in there. I bet it will say that if you start on day 1 of your period, you are protected immediately. If it does, that is reliable information.

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There's some question as to how Plan B works so it may not prevent pregnancy in all cases, which is something to ponder.

The other thing is that depending on the length of your cycle, getting pregnant in the first 3-5 days of your period is unlikely (but not impossible).

Have you considered giving your boyfriend his present belatedly? As in, giving him an I.O.U. for sex without condoms to be redeemed at a future date when your birth control has kicked in (after all, birth control is not just protection for you but protection for him as well)?

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"There's some question as to how Plan B works so it may not prevent pregnancy in all cases, which is something to ponder."

I think there may be some question as to whether it thins the uterine lining, but it's known to work mainly by preventing ovulation :)

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fortunaestcaeca.livejournal.com

I thought it worked by delaying ovulation?

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I was under the impression it delays it by first preventing it from happening if that's what the ovary was plotting

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knittinggoddess.livejournal.com

And since Plan B is meant to be taken once, not continuously, the ovulation is only delayed. Other hormonal contraception would prevent ovulation until you stop taking it.

Semantics, I suppose.

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The question was whether it prevents implantation is what I remember (religious groups were calling it an abortion drug on that basis). Preventing implantation would be much more effective than delaying ovulation. If you've just ovulated (which is the only time you can get pregnant) then I don't see how taking something that delays ovulation would help at all. The only time Plan B would help is if you are within a day of ovulating when you have unprotected sex (assuming it only delays ovulation and has no other effects).

That makes me wonder whether Plan B's "effectiveness" is artificially inflated by all the times it is taken and isn't needed because the woman is not fertile anyway. Similar to the way that the effectiveness of condoms is inflated (where it's not all instances of breakage that are counted for the failure rate but only those that happen during the couple of days per cycle that fertilization can actually happen and even then only for fertile couples).

This is all tangential to the original discussion but it's something that I've been wondering about since my only use for Plan B would be after I ovulated (I keep track) and before implantation but it would appear to be useless in those instances (not planning to test the theory).

ETA: verb conjugation fail

Edited Date: 2012-07-24 06:19 pm (UTC)

From:

fortunaestcaeca.livejournal.com

According to http://www.emergencycontraception.org/publications/PDFs/policy/MOA_ENG_2011.pdf (from the International Federation of Gynecology & Obstetrics):

"Two studies have estimated effectiveness of LNG ECPs by confirming the cycle day by hormonal analysis (other studies used women’s self-reported cycle date). In these studies, no pregnancies occurred in the women who took ECPs before ovulation; while pregnancies occurred only in women who took EC Ps on or after the day of ovulation, providing evidence that ECPs were unable to prevent implantation."

(edited for formatting)

Edited Date: 2012-07-24 07:20 pm (UTC)

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Thanks for the link. Well, that's $25 on Plan B down the crapper. :/

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I have also read that studies of Plan B have shown no prevention of implantation.

One thing to know about the effectiveness is that it's the stat for a single occurrence of sex. Whereas regular birth control, the percentage is per YEAR. Something that is 85% effective for a single episode of sex is WAY LESS effective than someone that is 85% effective for the year.

I'd be curious too though, to find out how the rate is calculated. I read one abstract just now that used day by day estimates of fertility and somehow concluded that the effectiveness is often overstated, but there weren't enough details to make much sense to me.

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I did find some info wrt to how they calculate rates

Therefore, the chance that pregnancy would occur in the absence of emergency contraception is estimated indirectly using published data on the probability of pregnancy on each day of the menstrual
cycle. This estimate is compared to the actual number of pregnancies observed after
treatment in observational treatment trials.

Calculation of effectiveness, and particularly the denominator of the fraction, involves many
assumptions that are difficult to validate. Accurate estimates of efficacy depend upon accurate
recording of timing of intercourse and cycle day (so that timing of ovulation can be estimated).
http://ec.princeton.edu/questions/ec-review.pdf

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You're right-if someone has already ovulated, the chances of Plan B working would go down. Some groups are uncomfortable with the possibility of the uterine lining being thinned...but it wouldn't cause an abortion since it would prevent implantation :p ~theoretically

Early treatment with ECPs containing only the progestin levonorgestrel has been shown to
impair the ovulatory process and luteal function.

Levonorgestrel does not impair the attachment of human embryos to an in vitro endometrial
construct and has no effect on the expression of endometrial receptivity markers.

Croxatto and colleagues have argued that most, if not all, of the contraceptive effect of levonorgestrel-only ECPs can be explained by
inhibited or dysfunctional ovulation, based on the existing animal and human studies

http://ec.princeton.edu/questions/ec-review.pdf

Idk about condom use numbers being inflated-the typical use rate includes people who don't always use them, put them on late, etc.

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Certain religious groups consider prevention of implantation to be equivalent to abortion because anything that ends a pregnancy after conception is abortion in their view (I don't agree but it's not my viewpoint I was talking about anyway).

As for condoms, I was talking about the rate during proper usage (reported effectiveness varies because some include the people who don't know what they are doing and some don't ... just like the effectiveness of the pill is actually much lower if you include people who don't take it properly).

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