How effective is the pullout, really?

[jaggednib.livejournal.com]

 My boyfriend and I were having a discussion about the pullout method.  While I, personally, would never use the pullout method, my boyfriend told me that he thinks its an ignorant form of birth control.
My argument is that for consenting couples who make the informed decision to use the pullout method, all the power to them.
My boyfriend on the other hand thinks that "ignorant behaviour like that is the reason for so many unwanted pregnancies and STI's." 

I was always taught that the pullout method was NOT a viable form of birth control and that it was stupid to even try to tempt fate by using it. 
My boyfriend says that using this method is comparable to still believing that the world is flat. I told him that I'm pretty sure it's the other way around and that his outdated thinking is actually like saying the world is flat.

Since I've started reading this site, I've never heard of so many people using the pullout method before. Now I'm curious, are there are scientific facts/stats that you could link me to stating that what I've been taught in my earlier life might actually be wrong? 
I would love to have something to show my boyfriend that it's not as "dumb" as he thinks it is. 
I would even appreciate any anecdotes about people who have used only the pullout for X amount of months/years and never even had a pregnancy scare. 

Also, when does one actually pullout? Just before ejaculation? A while before ejaculation to prevent the precum from impregnating the woman?
I don't mean to offend anyone with these questions, I'm just curious where I could get more information because my boyfriend is quite adamant that this is the single most ridiculous method of birth control he's ever heard of and I'm not so sure I agree. 

Comments

[tokio.livejournal.com]

Precum wouldn't impregnate a woman. Even if there is some sperm in the tract, I do believe it's a negligible amount.

Honestly, these questions make me think of queensugar, who is probably the loudest defender of the pull out method, and I do believe she would be one of the first to admit that it's not for everyone. I bet having a discussion with her about this, should she choose to chime in, would be very helpful for you.

[jaggednib.livejournal.com]

Excellent, I can't wait to hear what she has to say. I know there are a few on here who use that method and I'd love to hear from them.

[tokio.livejournal.com]

It might be helpful to also go back and try to find "Am I pregnant?" posts or posts about birth control. There's a wealth of information out there. The great thing about a lot of the people here is they don't mind reiterating that information -- it's important to them -- but, also, threads tend to come up where there are very detailed discussions, and I highly suggest reading those if you have the time. (Be prepared for random smatterings of, "my pet hobby horse is hypothyroidism," "yes, you can get pimples on your vulva, it's going to be okay!" and "here are the efficacy rates...")

[archangelbeth]

*waves her pet hobby horse around* O:>

[tokio.livejournal.com]

I can't wave my vulva pimples around. I'll make a big flag that says, "IT'S PROBABLY NOT HERPES," and just stick that in comments from now on. Everyone will know by the flapping of the giant vulva flag that tokio has come and conquered.

[teh-riaz.livejournal.com]

just, seriously, I love you.

[tokio.livejournal.com]

;D

[archangelbeth]

Enough vulva-flagging, and we'll have two entries in the VP drinking game? O;D

[x-memoirs.livejournal.com]

I know a girl years ago who got pregnant from precum.

[tokio.livejournal.com]

Personally, I can't find any scientific data to back up the idea that precum contains enough sperm to get a person pregnant. Everything I've found leads me to believe that conditions would absolutely have to be PERFECT. I tend to word things very absolutely -- it's highly unlikely to be impregnated by precum, but it can happen. It's just very rare..

I also think a lot of people confuse pre-seminal fluid with ejaculate. Men don't always ejaculate in one, long squirt (I wish I could find a better word for that, haha). Sometimes it can happen throughout the penetration with short bursts of ejaculation -- many people don't realize this is possible because it isn't commonly taught that ejaculation and orgasm can be mutually exclusive.

[tokio.livejournal.com]

Yeah, exactly. It's possible, but rare. Sperm "leakage," which is generally what I mean when I say short bursts of ejaculate, before orgasm is also common. I'm not sure which would be more likely to knock the other one out of the picture, though. It's entirely possible it could have been both!

[tokio.livejournal.com]

Oh, there we go! I was wondering if I had missed something.

[teh-riaz.livejournal.com]

I'm probably the second loudest defender then, haha!

with two (technically three) different guys, I relied solely on the withdrawal method for six years without a single scare. my lovers were experienced enough to be able to interpret their own sexual response and understand when to slow down when they were getting too close. they would give me mine and never really get dangerously close to theirs until they pulled out and I finished them orally.

I think the term "pull out method" is a bit misleading as it almost seems (to me, at least) to imply last-second-emergency-pull-out-n-spew, which COULD be really scary. my experience with it was never like that; the trick is mainly the guy knowing himself well enough and not letting himself get scary-close - that's when accidents happen, if he can't pull out in time.

everything that I've ever read and all of my experiences over the years have been consistent: as long as he's urinated and washed well since his last ejaculation, there won't be any sperm in a man's precum, and as long as he understands his own sexual response and pays attention to where he is in relation to his climax (and is experienced enough to know how to delay it, or to pull out BEFORE it becomes inevitable), it's not scary at all.

if I recall correctly, perfect use withdrawal is only a percentage point or so off from perfect condom use. I was shocked when I discovered that too :P we're educated (hopefully!) to use protection, and I strongly agree with that too, considering withdrawal isn't going to protect anyone from STIs.

but I have to say, I kind of think it's best that favorable statistics on withdrawal aren't more widespread, as I think a good number of people, especially young and less experienced people, certainly aren't going to benefit from conflicting encouragement to NOT protect themselves. it's kind of one of those things where if you're responsible enough to be talking about birth control of various sorts and digging up the statistics and educating yourself, you're likely to be a person who's responsible enough to be making use of that information, but it's better that it's not more widely known to the general public, does that make sense? I'm trying so hard to make logical statements through a migraine here, LOL.

anyway I hope some of that helps!

[tokio.livejournal.com]

That was pretty logical; I agree, and it's a very good point.

I hope your migraine goes away soon. :( I know what it's like to try to discuss a point through the light sensitivity and the sound sensitivity and the nausea and the CAVE MY HEAD IN NOW OR I WILL EAT YOU pain.

[teh-riaz.livejournal.com]

LOL, thanks! I hope so too :P and I'm glad the brain dump makes at least a little sense :)

[neptun-rising.livejournal.com]

We used that method for a few years before... well, you saw my post. I pee'd on the stick and it's positive.

[queenanka.livejournal.com]

My husband and I used it for five years of our marriage and never had any pregnancies. We have a child now but that was only when we actually tried.

[plastikgyrl.livejournal.com]

If one is comfortable with the failure rate of condoms (some are, some aren't, and that's cool), then logically one should also be comfortable with the failure rate of withdrawal. The perfect and typical use statistics for both are remarkably close.

This (http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/reprints/Contraception79-407-410.pdf) article references studies that show a 96% effectiveness rate for perfect use, and an 82% effectiveness rate for typical use (or 4% and 12% failure rates). Condoms are 98/83% effective (2/17% failure rates).

It's true that withdrawal won't prevent the transmission of STIs, but the most effective forms of contraception won't, either. What does prevent the transmission of STIs in a relationship where partners agree that withdrawal is the optimal contraceptive choice is testing, honesty, and trust. I don't think it's the best form of contraception for everyone, and I certainly would personally hesitate to use it casually. I think it's important, though, to discount the negative press associated with withdrawal (and those who use it), because there are a whole lot of smart, well-read folks out there who practice it regularly with success.

If your boyfriend doesn't think he has the self-control to be able to withdraw and ejaculate somewhere away from your vagina, then it's NOT the right option for him. Doesn't mean it's wrong for the rest of us.

[plastikgyrl.livejournal.com]

Oops. The failure rate for withdrawal should read 18%. Sorry about that.

[teh-riaz.livejournal.com]

LOVE your icon XD

[theatreant.livejournal.com]

Both queensugarand archangelbeth (the best sources for info on it, imo!) commented on this (http://community.livejournal.com/vaginapagina/17210143.html?#cutid1) post about it:


A good quote I pulled from there: "The Guttmacher Institute and Planned Parenthood report, the efficacy of withdrawal used alone is similar to to the efficacy of condoms on both ends (94% effective in a year when used perfectly for withdrawal, 82% effective with typical use, with condoms at 98% and 85% respectively)."

[jaggednib.livejournal.com]

My question then becomes, what does it mean "when used perfectly,"?

[archangelbeth]

• When there's no sperm in the urethra for precum to wash out. (Urination is commonly believed to wash out the sperm, but this hasn't been studied.)
• When the guy pulls out before he ejaculates.
• When the guy pulls out before he leaks.

It's really simple in theory -- but it's all based on biology and that makes it non-simple in practice. Especially since guys can't feel it if they leak... (But I've tasted it twice with my spouse...)

I like condoms, and have great faith in them (18 years of marriage, no accidental pregnancies), but I would not like withdrawal. I don't want to have to have that much discipline in the sex! I don't want him to have to pull out, especially if I'm close, y'know? And I don't entirely trust that he'd be able to pull out before leakage -- unless it was way before ejaculation, and... That'd be no fun for me.

Other people, of course, have other preferences, and I shan't try to impose mine on them.

[calyxia.livejournal.com]

"shan't"
i just love it!

[1girl.livejournal.com]

I think the reason that the pullout method is taught to be a risky method is that young, sexually inexperienced men might not have the control necessary to properly utilize it. Would you really trust a 16 year old to be able to judge when he needs to pull out? No, probably not. In addition, it's really only a viable method for those in monogamous, trusting relationships because it does not prevent against STDs.

[tokio.livejournal.com]

Or, as an aside, the withdrawal method is also viable for people comfortable with their STD status within a group of partners. :) I'm not trying to play the devil's advocate here; I know that STDs can often be symptomless. I don't think the pull out method necessarily has to be used within the context of a monogamous relationship. A trusting relationship probably helps with the efficacy rates of withdrawal because communication between partners is more likely to aid in the proper timing of withdrawal.

[1girl.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I get what you're saying. Basically I meant any relationship in which you* trust your partner(s) to be STD free.

*universal you

[tokio.livejournal.com]

I knew you weren't trying to be "narrow-minded," or even insinuating you don't know this (I wanted to clarify that for the record). I just wanted to provide an alternate scenario for the OP or any other curious readers of this post. Sometimes I feel like use of the word monogamous in relation to contraceptives can be alienating, so I like to expound.

[glass-houses.livejournal.com]

My boyfriend and I think that relying on pullout completely is not, well, reliable. Plus, we both adore when he comes inside me. There's nothing like it.

[jaggednib.livejournal.com]

This. That's why I personally would never use it, but I really do appreciate all the information that I've received regarding my questions!

[missdi.livejournal.com]

I personally use withdrawal combined with a light version of the fertility awareness method (I am fairly regular) and I find that it works well in our case. Of course I know there's no risk of STIs involved, I'd never use it for casual sex. At first when my boyfriend brought it up I was very sceptical but then I researched it and learned about the risks involved, which were much smaller than I expected. It seems that withdrawal is getting more attention lately, in articles like this (http://www.doublex.com/section/health-science/who-needs-condoms-when-you-can-pull-out). I find it refreshing that the views on birth control are starting to be less black and white :)

[eexposed.livejournal.com]

My partner and I practice FAM, and always pull out in the first portion of my cycle when ovulation hasn't occurred yet (during my period and on dry days). It has been effective and comfortable for us to use.

The reason we are able to do this is because we are both very much monogamous and have no STIs, he is old enough and experienced enough to know when he is coming, and I am comfortable with the efficacy of FAM/NFP + withdrawal - 99.92% perfect use, according to Scarleteen: http://www.scarleteen.com/article/pink/the_buddy_system_effectiveness_rates_for_backing_up_your_birth_control_with_a_second_me

I would say that it is all up to the user and their specific situation. For someone who is not monogamous, having sex without a condom may expose them to STIs, and for anyone, monogamous or not, it could expose them to a chance of pregnancy that depends on their diligence in practicing withdrawal. There is really no "good" or "bad" about the method, or any method really - good and bad are subjective, so to one person, withdrawal may be a "bad" method because of one reason or another, while to another person, withdrawal is the holy grail of birth control methods.

[odalisque.livejournal.com]

I personally think that a couple who is dedicated to the pullout method (and careful about it) can be better than a couple who are lax about birth control pills. All methods of birth control come with risks, and it's about what you are comfortable with and how committed you are to following the rules as close as possible. One of my best friends got pregnant on BCP because she would get drunk every night and forget to take it - certainly not the fault of BCP, but she was not aware of the risks and thought her method was indestructible.

Withdrawal CAN be a good method, and I know couples who have used it for a very long time. It's certainly better than using no method. ;) I think we try to badly educate people about it - but I think people are uneducated on every single type of birth control. In school I was taught that withdrawal is the dumbest thing you can do, condoms break all the time, and you are guaranteed to not get pregnant on hormonal birth control. Ugh.

Sorry, slight rant. :X

[tokio.livejournal.com]

I personally think that a couple who is dedicated to the pullout method (and careful about it) can be better than a couple who are lax about birth control pills.

I absolutely agree from an anecdotal point of view. I have been pretty bad at taking my HBC lately. I was constantly worried about pregnancy during that time. I ceased taking it due to pending hypothyroidism treatment, and my partner and I occasionally indulge withdrawal method, and I actually feel a lot less worried about the chances. I know that in either case the chances are still pretty slim; maybe having him ejaculate inside of me causes a bit of spook.

[elialshadowpine.livejournal.com]

There are actually studies showing that there is no semen in pre-cum so...

The problem with withdrawal is that the guy has to have the control to do it. It's all on him, and if he screws up... Plan B?

[haptotrope.livejournal.com]

Well, for once its the guy erring on the side of safety. And I'm sure hes basing this choice on previous stories and urban legends, since the harsh language speaks of judgement.

BUT: if you want to try it, maybe go on the pill, and get an STI test for you and the boy, and make a commitment to be monogamous. Then do what you like... at least until someone messes up.

But that's always the case. So be sure to talk about back-up plans, and abort/adopt/keep, and STI protocol, etc... you have to accept the risk that there is a human on the end of the penis, and one more stroke, and risk goes up significantly.

[x-memoirs.livejournal.com]

My boyfriend and I have been together for three and a half years. For reference.

When we first started having sex, we used condoms for the first six months or so. Then we "upgraded" to no condom at first, then condom when he's coming close to ejaculation. We've only had two mishaps, but we've learned from them. From there, we would use the pull out method every once in awhile, but condoms were still being used.

Within the last year or so, we ditched condoms altogether. We used the pull out method very successfully - like I said, we learned from the mishaps - and now for the last three months we've been trying to conceive, so.. yeah.

We never worried about precum, only when he was about to ejaculate.

[mandy.livejournal.com]

It's not a matter of trust when it comes to myself and my partner with the pull-out method; even with all the statistical results backing it up as being comparable to condoms it still feels like a method I am uncomfortable with. It's just not for me. I really think its how people, like myself, have been taught and educated about what methods are better (condoms vs pull-out method) and the stigmas against it but instead of trying it out or seeing if it works it really matters little for me. Condoms have worked great for myself and my partner and although we both love going without them I am for sure not risking it until I get some form of BC that I like first.

[queensugar.livejournal.com]

Oh hello, I see my name has been mentioned!

Others have given good info here, but I'll summarize some of my normal points.

First of all, many people are indeed taught that withdrawal is "no better than nothing." This is demonstrably untrue: reliable sources including Planned Parenthood, the Guttmacher Institute, and other contraceptive efficacy experts place the efficacy of withdrawal at 94% in a year with perfect use, and 82% in a year with typical use.

That is similar to the efficacy of condoms alone, which is one of the reasons that the Guttmacher Institute recently published an interesting article (http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/reprints/Contraception79-407-410.pdf) regarding whether or not withdrawal should have a place in discussions about contraceptive options. (In summary, their basic conclusion was "yes, we should be clearing up that this method can be effective.") You might also want to read the great post (http://community.livejournal.com/vaginapagina/11973497.html) that VP founder rockstarbob made on the subject, with lots of links.

It is likely that the withdrawal method has always been taught as "totally ineffective" or "useless" because it is perceived to be so risky. And in a way, that's true: the margin of error for withdrawal can be very narrow. (You're either in or you're out, really.) And unlike a broken condom or missed pill, it may not be obvious when the method has failed and some semen did in fact get into the vagina; and furthermore, if the method is used incorrectly, you won't know until after semen has entered the body.

There's also the issue that withdrawal may be more difficult to use correctly for males who are less sexually experienced, and may not have learned their own personal "cues" to ejaculation well enough to withdraw fully before ejaculation occurs, or may not have learned how to prevent ejaculation from occuring when they feel it starting. For that reason, the general approach has been to tell teens specifically that it is almost useless. I disagree with the thinking behind that approach -- I'd rather they made teens fully aware of the facts, including the risks -- but I understand why it's done.

As far as anecdotes: I've used withdrawal more or less as my sole method for the last five years and two partners. (When I met my husband and told him that I would like us to use withdrawal, I did go back on the pill for a few months so he could practice; once he was batting 100% with withdrawal, I quit the pill again.) I have never been pregnant -- I'm never really sure how to define "pregnancy scare," as my periods can be a bit erratic and so there have been times when I was quite a bit "late" and aware that pregnancy might have occured, but it wasn't really a "scare" and at any rate, I wasn't pregnant. All in all, I am fully aware of the risks and willing to accept them; the benefits of the withdrawal method, for me and my life, outweigh its lower efficacy rate compared to the pill.

As far as when to withdraw, some people pull-out awhile before ejaculation and finish it off manually; my partner (and past-partner) and I prefer to pull out just as they hit the "point of no return," usually about three to five seconds before ejaculation, and usually finish it off with ejaculation in the mouth.

[rockstarbob.livejournal.com]

...and now I don't even need to comment. ;)